Linux: Temporarily Removing x86-Optimized AES

Submitted by Jeremy
on August 6, 2004 - 8:38am

A recent patch was merged into 2.6.8-rc3 [story] providing an x86-optimized assembly-code implementation of AES. The original version of this code was written by Dr. Brian Gladman in 2001, about which Linux creator Linus Torvalds noted, "I refused the code originally because I didn't feel that Gladman's license was a proper subset of the GPL. I only accepted it after dual-licensing under the GPL had been ok'd by Dr Brian Gladman himself." Following the announcement that this code had been merged, Jari Ruusu complained that this changed his license without permission. What Jari's actual standing is with the license was called into question, though he did provide patches in late 2001 and early 2002 and continues to maintain loop-aes. The end result was the removal of the current optimized patch, with the intention of rewriting it. Linus noted, "we'll see just how quickly somebody steps up to the plate. I spent some time taking the original Gladman source into gas format, and have a really ugly (untested) direct conversion if somebody wants to work on it."

AES is the Advanced Encryption Standard, a replacement for DES, the Data Encryption Standard. The Rijndael algorithm is a block cipher and was developed by two Belgian cryptographers, Joan Daemen and Vincent Rijmen, selected by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) to become AES in October of 2000. Rijndael has its own fan page and is based on an earlier block cipher known as Square, designed by the same authors. A good overview of how Rijndael works, complete with diagrams, can be found here.


From: Jari Ruusu [email blocked]
To: Linus Torvalds [email blocked], James Morris [email blocked]
Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3
Date: 	Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:04:46 +0300

Linus Torvalds wrote:
> Summary of changes from v2.6.8-rc2 to v2.6.8-rc3
[snip]
> James Morris:
>   o [CRYPTO]: Add i586 optimized AES

My work on aes-i586.S is only licensed under original three clause BSD
license. You do not have my permission to change the license.

Either use original license or drop this code.

-- 
Jari Ruusu  1024R/3A220F51 5B 4B F9 BB D3 3F 52 E9  DB 1D EB E3 24 0E A9 DD


From: Linus Torvalds [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:23:12 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jari Ruusu wrote: > > Linus Torvalds wrote: > > Summary of changes from v2.6.8-rc2 to v2.6.8-rc3 > [snip] > > James Morris: > > o [CRYPTO]: Add i586 optimized AES > > My work on aes-i586.S is only licensed under original three clause BSD > license. You do not have my permission to change the license. > > Either use original license or drop this code. We'll drop it immediately. It should be easy enough to get somebody saner than you to re-convert from the original AES code which is dual-GPL'd. Linus
From: James Morris [email blocked] Subject: [PATCH] Drop asm i586 AES code. Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT) This patch reverts the i586 AES module. A new one should be ready soon. Signed-off-by: James Morris [email blocked] [patch]
From: James Morris [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:00:26 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jari Ruusu wrote: > Linus Torvalds wrote: > > Summary of changes from v2.6.8-rc2 to v2.6.8-rc3 > [snip] > > James Morris: > > o [CRYPTO]: Add i586 optimized AES > > My work on aes-i586.S is only licensed under original three clause BSD > license. You do not have my permission to change the license. > > Either use original license or drop this code. Can you assert licensing restrictions which override the original author's (Brian Gladman)? I don't know the answer, just asking. - James -- James Morris [email blocked]
From: J.Bruce Fields [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:10:46 -0400 On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 12:00:26PM -0400, James Morris wrote: > On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jari Ruusu wrote: > > > Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > Summary of changes from v2.6.8-rc2 to v2.6.8-rc3 > > [snip] > > > James Morris: > > > o [CRYPTO]: Add i586 optimized AES > > > > My work on aes-i586.S is only licensed under original three clause BSD > > license. You do not have my permission to change the license. > > > > Either use original license or drop this code. > > Can you assert licensing restrictions which override the original author's > (Brian Gladman)? I don't know the answer, just asking. Well, the license is an "or", so you're free to create derived works under either or both licenses as you prefer. But I don't even see why it's an issue; every source I've ever seen seems to agree that the two are compatible, so you're always free to relicense under 3-clause BSD under BSD or GPL anyway. So, unless I'm missing something, the "or GPL" probably doesn't do anything more than make explicit something that was allowed already. --Bruce Fields
From: Arjan van de Ven [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:27:30 +0200 > relicense under 3-clause BSD under BSD or GPL anyway. So, unless I'm > missing something, the "or GPL" probably doesn't do anything more than > make explicit something that was allowed already. not entirely; in a dual license scheme one has the freedom to ignore one of the two licenses and also to place derived work only under the one chosen. That and it's outright rude to take someone else's code and relicense it.
From: Patrick McFarland [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:19:32 -0400 On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:27:30 +0200, Arjan van de Ven [email blocked] wrote: > not entirely; in a dual license scheme one has the freedom to ignore one > of the two licenses and also to place derived work only under the one > chosen. That and it's outright rude to take someone else's code and > relicense it. So will 2.6.8-rc4 be released with no optimized aes, or with a saner optimized aes? -- Patrick "Diablo-D3" McFarland || [email blocked] "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
From: Linus Torvalds [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:45:12 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Patrick McFarland wrote: > > So will 2.6.8-rc4 be released with no optimized aes, or with a saner > optimized aes? We'll see just how quickly somebody steps up to the plate. I spent some time taking the original Gladman source into gas format, and have a really ugly (untested) direct conversion if somebody wants to work on it. Side note: Jari Ruusu has himself been distributing the code he now objects to as part of his own linux kernel loop-aes patches. From the loop-aes README: Copyright 2001,2002,2003,2004 by Jari Ruusu. Redistribution of this file is permitted under the GNU Public License. But the original x86 assembler code that is part of that loop-aes patch was copyright Dr Brian Gladman, and was NOT originally under the GPL, so it was Jari Ruusu who originally did something very suspect from a copyright angle. Now he claims he never wanted to GPL it, but the fact is, he's been distributing kernel patches with the code for a long time, and claiming it is GPL'd. So then David and James wanted to include it into the kernel as part of the standard encryption layer, and I said no, since I felt the copyright wasn't clear. So James asked Dr Gladman for permission to dual-license under the GPL, and got it. So I was happy. Now Jari Ruusu comes along and starts complaining about things. Jari: mitä helvetin järkeä tuossa on? Selitä. Linus
From: Fruhwirth Clemens [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 - BSD licensing Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 20:37:43 +0200 On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 18:00, James Morris wrote: > On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Jari Ruusu wrote: > > > Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > Summary of changes from v2.6.8-rc2 to v2.6.8-rc3 > > [snip] > > > James Morris: > > > o [CRYPTO]: Add i586 optimized AES > > > > My work on aes-i586.S is only licensed under original three clause BSD > > license. You do not have my permission to change the license. > > > > Either use original license or drop this code. > > Can you assert licensing restrictions which override the original author's > (Brian Gladman)? I don't know the answer, just asking. Short: override no; add yes. Long: The BSD license starts with[1]: ''Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:'' The conditions followed by that sentence are compatible with the GPL (legally), but the GPL does not include a verbatim copy of those conditions, therefor these conditions must not be stripped. Thus, the ''instead of'' clause, added below the BSD conditions, is invalid for sure. However, I could add additional conditions to the list. If you reread [1] carefully you will come to the conclusion that adding restrictions does not affect the 3-clauses and therefor is legal to do (imagine this as a series of logical ANDs). That's exactly the reason the FSF calls BSD permissive and that's the reason Microsoft has used the BSD TCP/IP stack. As a matter of principle I do not add additional restrictions as respect for the original author's efforts. But James, David or Linus might do that, and by accident choose these additional restrictions to be like those of the GPL. I would understand such action as I'd would like to see that every kernel code is protected by the GPL. The impotent difference is, the code is not GPL only. It's Dual BSD/GPL. ('/' does not mean OR). As the BSD license is effectively a legal subset of the GPL, the GPL is the dominant and defining license here. At the end that's all we want. I advise to replace the ALTERNATIVELY paragraph of aes-i586.S by: ''Additionally all provisions of the GNU General Public License (GPL) must be met''. -- Fruhwirth Clemens [email blocked] http://clemens.endorphin.org
From: Linus Torvalds [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 - BSD licensing Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:51:17 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Fruhwirth Clemens wrote: > > As a matter of principle I do not add additional restrictions as respect > for the original author's efforts. But James, David or Linus might do > that, and by accident choose these additional restrictions to be like > those of the GPL. I would understand such action as I'd would like to > see that every kernel code is protected by the GPL. That's not actually what we did. I refused the code originally because I didn't feel that Gladman's license was a proper subset of the GPL. I only accepted it after dual-licensing under the GPL had been ok'd by Dr Brian Gladman himself. Note that the kernel is perfectly fine with dual-licensing: there's a number of drivers in the kernel that can be distributed either under BSD or GPL licenses. I hate adding restrictions too, so when we have a mix of licenses, I much prefer allowing _both_ for that piece of code. That's why the current aes-i586-asm.S file has // ALTERNATIVELY, provided that this notice is retained in full, this product // may be distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL), // in which case the provisions of the GPL apply INSTEAD OF those given above. Of course, the kernel itself always uses the GPL version, but dual licensing is how we can allow certain drivers to be maintained across Linux and the BSD's (or other projects, for that matter). No need to duplicate work that way. Linus
From: Fruhwirth Clemens [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 - BSD licensing Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:26:52 +0200 On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 20:51, Linus Torvalds wrote: > On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Fruhwirth Clemens wrote: > > > > As a matter of principle I do not add additional restrictions as respect > > for the original author's efforts. But James, David or Linus might do > > that, and by accident choose these additional restrictions to be like > > those of the GPL. I would understand such action as I'd would like to > > see that every kernel code is protected by the GPL. > > That's not actually what we did. I refused the code originally because I > didn't feel that Gladman's license was a proper subset of the GPL. I don't view the FSF as sort of last instance, but just for the protocol: The exact wording of this license is labeled 'GPL-compatible' by the FSF. Imho, this makes it a subset. > I only accepted it after dual-licensing under the GPL had been ok'd by Dr Brian > Gladman himself. Additional coding, no problem, but additional social work, I'd prefer not to be involved with. As there is no legal requirement, such efforts would just make a good appearance. But, hey, if someone volunteers to sort out these problems, my modifications to aes-i586.S can be relicensed under the GPL anytime, no problem. -- Fruhwirth Clemens [email blocked] http://clemens.endorphin.org
From: Linus Torvalds [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 - BSD licensing Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:56:20 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Fruhwirth Clemens wrote: > > I don't view the FSF as sort of last instance, but just for the > protocol: The exact wording of this license is labeled 'GPL-compatible' > by the FSF. Imho, this makes it a subset. Ahh. Fair enough. I didn't have any lawyer look at it, I just don't like assuming. > Additional coding, no problem, but additional social work, I'd prefer > not to be involved with. As there is no legal requirement, such efforts > would just make a good appearance. I'd much rather do the social work, not so much necessarily for legal reasons, but for my own menal well-being. It's just _so_ much nicer to work with a code-base where none of the authors might complain about being included. So even if the original license is GPL-compatible, just the fact that Jari doesn't want his work re-licensed means that I don't want his work in the kernel - whether it's a legal issue or not. Now, I obviously believe that Jari has acted like an ass, since he has used the very same code under the GPL before, but hey, that's his problem. Jari - please stop distributing your loop-aes patches. If you consider the license to be non-GPL-compatible, then you have no business distributing the thing as kernel patches. Alternatively, just say it's GPL'd. You can't have it both ways. Linus
From: Jari Ruusu [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 - BSD licensing Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 15:33:03 +0300 Linus Torvalds wrote: > Now, I obviously believe that Jari has acted like an ass, since he has > used the very same code under the GPL before, but hey, that's his problem. Linus, are you saying that anyone who refuses to re-license their work under license of your choice, is an ass? Or just the ones who catch you re-licencing their work without permission? > Jari - please stop distributing your loop-aes patches. If you consider the > license to be non-GPL-compatible, then you have no business distributing > the thing as kernel patches. Alternatively, just say it's GPL'd. You can't > have it both ways. I say that loop-AES is GPL-compatible. Most of the files in loop-AES are licensed under GPL. Some files have less restrictive license, but are still licensed under GPL-compatible license. I am not aware of any files in loop-AES that are GPL-incompatible. -- Jari Ruusu 1024R/3A220F51 5B 4B F9 BB D3 3F 52 E9 DB 1D EB E3 24 0E A9 DD
From: Linus Torvalds [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 - BSD licensing Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:50:22 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Jari Ruusu wrote: > > Most of the files in loop-AES are licensed under GPL. Some files have less > restrictive license, but are still licensed under GPL-compatible license. > I am not aware of any files in loop-AES that are GPL-incompatible. You're saying that you consider Gladman's original AES license to be GPL-compatible (ie a subset of it)? That's fine - apparently the FSF agrees. However, that is incompatible with you then complaining when it gets released under the GPL. If the original license was a proper subset of the GPL, then it can _always_ be re-released under the GPL, and you don't have anything to complain about. So which is it? Either it's GPL-compatible or it isn't. If it is GPL-compatible, why are you making noises? And if it is not, why are you claiming that you can distribute loop-AES as a GPL'd project? You seem to be very very confused, Jari. There really _are_ only these two cases: - the AES code is GPL-compatible This fundamentally means that it has no more restrictions than the GPL, and that in turn means that it can always be re-licensed as GPL'd code. Which James Morris did (well, it was dual-licensed, but the only license that matters for the _kernel_ is the GPL). In this case, you can't say "you can't do that". I'm sorry, but James _can_ do that, and it is _you_ who can't do that. - the AES code is _not_ GPL compatible. This fundamentally means that you can't relicense it under the GPL, but it _also_ means that you can't link it with GPL code, since the GPL _requires_ that the code be under the GPL. In this case, loop-AES was always wrogn and lying about beign GPL'd, and you should stop distributing it immediately. You can't have it both ways. And there aren't any third alternatives. Explain yourself. Linus
From: Jari Ruusu [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 - BSD licensing Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 12:47:31 +0300 Linus Torvalds wrote: > You're saying that you consider Gladman's original AES license to be > GPL-compatible (ie a subset of it)? That's fine - apparently the FSF > agrees. Yes, it is GPL-compatible. > However, that is incompatible with you then complaining when it gets > released under the GPL. If the original license was a proper subset of the > GPL, then it can _always_ be re-released under the GPL, and you don't have > anything to complain about. Linus, you are mixing two completely different rights here; re-distribution right and re-licensing right. Original license grants you GPL-compatible re-distribution rights, which means that the code can be distributed and linked with GPL code just fine. To relicense the code under more restrictive license you need permission from all authors of the code. You clearly do not have such permission from all authors. Therefore, you can not re-license the code. -- Jari Ruusu 1024R/3A220F51 5B 4B F9 BB D3 3F 52 E9 DB 1D EB E3 24 0E A9 DD
From: Linus Torvalds [email blocked] Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.8-rc3 - BSD licensing Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:39:00 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 6 Aug 2004, Jari Ruusu wrote: > > Linus, you are mixing two completely different rights here; > re-distribution right and re-licensing right. Ehh.. You're wrong. Copyright law has nothing to do with "licensing". In fact, if you actually read copyright law, you will find that the _only_ thing that it's about is the right to distribute a work and the right to make derived works. (Side note: there are also certain "right of attribution" etc, but that's still not about re-licensing and those are about the author, not the owner of the copyright). In other words, being the "owner" of a work has nothing to do with the right to "relicence". Being able to license somebody else to distribute the work does NOT require ownership. It only requires a _license_ to do so. You can keep owning your copyright, and let somebody else distribute the copy for you by liccensing him to do that. And a license like the BSD license that allows very broad rights to _everybody_ means that pretty much everybody can not only distribute it, but since the BSD license doesn't even limit how they re-distribute it, you can distribute it with some additional requirements of your own. Why do you think Microsoft etc can take BSD code and then slap their EULA on it? Right. They were given the right to distribute. > Original license grants > you GPL-compatible re-distribution rights, which means that the code can > be distributed and linked with GPL code just fine. You clearly do not know what you're talking about. You haven't even read the GPL, have you? The GPL doesn't say "you can link this with a GPL-compatible license". It says: b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License. Notice? It says "this License". Not "this license or some more permissive license". The ONLY license you can use to create a GPL derivative is the GPL itself. And the way "GPL-compatible" licenses work is _exactly_ because these licenses are "weaker" than the GPL, and as such can always be _relicensed_ as the GPL. THAT IS WHAT GPL-COMPATIBLE MEANS! So when you claim that the code isn't GPL-compatible, and at the same time claim that we can't re-license it under the GPL, you are very very confused indeed. Either it is GPL-compatible, or it is not. And if it is GPL-compatible, that ABSOLUTELY means that it can be relicensed under the GPL. Comprende? Anyway, the point is moot. We've removed the code you touched, and I'm about to apply the new version that is based on Gladman's code (I did the conversion myself, and James Morris did the final stuff and the integration with the rest of the code). And we did that not for legal reasons, but because quite frankly, I don't want to have _anything_ to do with somebody as confused as you are. Linus

Related Links:

Unproductive behavior

Anonymous
on
August 6, 2004 - 11:26am

Maybe Torvalds should stop name-calling long enough to read what Ruusu actually wrote. At no time in the mails presented here did Ruusu claim his license was incompatible. He only complained of an illegal relicensing.

And to think Torvalds gives legal advice in intellectual property...

I side w/ Linus on this one.

on
August 6, 2004 - 11:50am

If code is under a GPL-compatible license, then you can construct and redistribute a "derived work" consisting of that code and other GPL code. Such a derived work automatically falls under the GPL.

Thus, the GPL-compatibly-licensed code ends up under a GPL license.

If a license is compatible with the GPL, you can always derive new GPL code from existing code under that license. Since static linking is considered "derivation", just compiling the code into a GPL application and redistributing the result is all you need to do to bring it under the GPL.

loads of crap

Anonymous
on
August 6, 2004 - 1:34pm

Maybe Torvalds should stop name-calling long enough to read what Ruusu actually wrote. At no time in the mails presented here did Ruusu claim his license was incompatible. He only complained of an illegal relicensing.

----------

if your code is under bsd, i have every right to take your code and release it as gpl. there is nothing illegal about that at all.

"And to think Torvalds gives legal advice in intellectual property..."

what exactly is wrong?. he has argued about copyright for a long time. he is obviously aware of the issues regarding gpl and he has every right to comment on it. he is also correct here. so it makes perfect sense to me. explain to me what you think is right and why he shouldnt talk about IP. he is talking just about copyright and licenses and not IP as a whole btw

Name

on
August 6, 2004 - 12:47pm

From the Rijndael page:

Why did you choose this name [Rijndael]?

Because we were both fed up with people mutilating the pronunciation of the names "Daemen" and "Rijmen". (There are two messages in this answer.)

So I suggest that somebody corrects the poor chap's name in the posting. ;)

In case anybody is interested in this very off-topic subject, 'Daemen' is old spelling for 'Daamen', which would be written 'Damen' these days. So, as consolation, if names would be subject to spelling rules, you'd have been right.

(I suppose Daemen could have meant 'ladies', and Rijmen means 'to rhyme' or 'rhymes'. Always fun to have a name that actually means something...)

Name

Anonymous
on
August 6, 2004 - 2:55pm

Actually,

Daemen is short for the biblical name Adam, and was used ad "Son of Adam".

Rijmen comes from the old German surname rêd-man which means counsellor, advisor, and was also used as "Son of ..."

Rijndael

Anonymous
on
August 7, 2004 - 9:52am

I wish those Belgians had patented their algorithm such that the United States wouldn't be able to use it...

What a silly attitude

Anonymous
on
August 7, 2004 - 10:23am

Why lock out users of good software?
Software patents are EVIL, exactly because they let you lock out some users. Software algorithms, methods etc should be free for all to use (and yes, that includes people you don't like).

Those Belgians (offtopic)

Anonymous
on
August 7, 2004 - 12:20pm

I wish those Belgians would pull out of NATO and pay for their own self-defense, instead of dishonestly taking American support even as they oppose America at every opportunity.

Belgians need American milita

Anonymous
on
August 7, 2004 - 7:51pm

Belgians need American military support?!

Those Americans (offtopic)

Anonymous
on
August 8, 2004 - 8:47am

learn basic geopolitics, or crawl back into your parents basement to seclude yourself from objective media and keep on believing in your 'american ideals'.

re: Rijndael

on
August 8, 2004 - 11:09pm

If they had patented the Rijndael algorithm (a bad idea, IMHO), then it would not have been eligable for the AES competition.

Forget the dangerous standard!!!

Anonymous
on
August 14, 2004 - 8:52am

Use the decent Russian cipher, 256-bit key, it's GHOST from 1980 or also ..., it's quicker, secure, simple than the patented Rijndael.

open4free ©

Rijndael is not patented, wha

on
August 18, 2004 - 8:02am

Rijndael is not patented, what makes you think that? Besides that, Rijndael is much newer, from 2000, so I'm pretty sure it's better than Ghost, because of the advancement of cryptography in those years. Ghost is DES based. Rijndael supports keys of 128, 192 and 256 bits. Please keep your FUD for yourself, or at least try to prove your point next time.

both correct, more or less.

on
August 7, 2004 - 9:44pm

They differ on the use of "re-license". You can take BSD code and distribute it inside a GPL licensed package, no problem. That BSD code is still subject to its original copyright and license. The package as a whole is subject to the GPL.

If I take the BSD licensed code out of the GPL package, that code is only subject to the BSD license. (right?)

Linus is calling the combined packaging "re-licensing". I think this is a misuse of the term. What I think Jari is calling re-licensing (and what I think is correct use of the term) is something only the original copyright holder can do, which is to change the license notice.. that would preclude someone taking the BSD code out of the GPL package and still using it as BSD code.

I hope that is clear. I think this is purely a misunderstanding in terminology.

-molo

re-license

Anonymous
on
August 8, 2004 - 12:10am

I think a BSD license that is GPL compatible means you can take the BSD code, and distribute it under the GPL. You can't stop the original code from being BSD licensed, but you can make modifications to you GPL version that can't then be incorporated back into the BSD code.

That's fine though, BSD allows this, and BSD license proponents are very vocal about their support for this. Think about it, lots of people lock up BSD code in proprietary licenses that are not open source and much more restrictive than GPL. It is no big deal.

That isn't what they seem to be saying

Anonymous
on
August 8, 2004 - 4:44am

As I read the exchange linus seems to be saying that not only does the BSD grant liscensees the right to distribute the work it also grants them the right to *re-release and reliscence* the work so long as the new liscensce meets certain conditions. Since the GPL meets these conditions it really is just under the GPL and not under the BSD liscensce (in other words there is the legal fiction of an original work under BSD and a derived work...that just happens to be exactly the same under the GPL). Perhaps I am misinterprating but this is what I thougt was being claimed. Or maybe I dond't understand your two uses of reliscenscing...could you explain.

Regardless of the terminology however this disagreement *can't* simply be a matter of terminology. Either Jari's claims about his code are legally inconsistant or not. They can't be both.

Don't agree

Anonymous
on
August 9, 2004 - 10:05am

I don't agree. You can't "combine a package" without the
rights to distribute the original GPL code. And you only get
those rights if you distribute the whole package as GPL.
And distributing the whole package as GPL means distributing
each single part as GPL (according to the GPL). Therefore
distributing the whole package as GPL means re-licensing.

Now when the FSF states that BSD is GPL-compatible, it means
that the BSD-license allows that relicensing. This is exactly
the reason why it is GPL compatible. There is no possibility
to write code, slap an arbitrary license on it, and state
that "this license is GPL-compatible". This is because
as the author of the add-on code, you don't get to determine
he provisions of the license of the original. The original
was GPL, so the add-on must be GPL too.

All "licenses that are GPL-compatible" mean "licenses that allow
re-licensing under GPL only". This is the case for BSD, LGPL, etc.

If Juri didn't want to allow re-licensing, he should have used a
license that doesn't allow it. You can't have it both ways,
i.e. you can't first use a license that allows re-licensing,
then afterwards forbid the same relicensing.

The main point of this event

on
August 9, 2004 - 11:17am

The main point of this event is that, even if the license allows it, if you don't want your code in the Linux kernel, it will be removed.

Kinda........

on
August 10, 2004 - 4:55am

Well so long as it is reasonable. I bet if buisness school corrupts Cox (he is the one who left to get an MBA right) and he decides to pull out his massive contributions it wouldn't happen.

For small contributors it certainly is reasonable to remove their code rather than risk a complicated legal battle. But who cares the abstract question of whether Jari's position is inconsistant is far more interesting.

Except, of course, that all o

on
August 10, 2004 - 10:43am

Except, of course, that all of Alan's contributions were clearly licensed under the GPL.

So, Alan could fork his code, but I think that he'd fork mentally as well. He's been a rather staunch supporter of the GPL. I doubt the MBA would "convert" him so easily.

End of it all

Anonymous
on
August 10, 2004 - 4:59pm

For those who might be intrested in how this thread ended:


Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004, Jari Ruusu wrote:
> > Linus, you are mixing two completely different rights here;
> > re-distribution right and re-licensing right.
>
> Ehh.. You're wrong.

Yep. I goofed.

> You haven't even read the GPL, have you?

I read it in 1995. Obviously too many years have passed since then.

> So when you claim that the code isn't GPL-compatible, and at the same time
> claim that we can't re-license it under the GPL, you are very very
> confused indeed. Either it is GPL-compatible, or it is not. And if it is
> GPL-compatible, that ABSOLUTELY means that it can be relicensed under the
> GPL.

Yep. I don't have any other choice here than to permit re-licencing the
code. My 04-Aug-2004 18:04:46 +0300 posting where I denied re-licencing
right was completely wrong. I'm sorry about that.

For loop-AES users I uploaded a patch here that updates licenses to be
GPL-compatible: http://loop-aes.sourceforge.net/updates/aes-GPL.diff


On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Jari Ruusu wrote:
> >
> > Ehh.. You're wrong.
>
> Yep. I goofed.

Hey, Welcome back, Jari.

It's easy to be wrong. It's much harder to come out and say so.

Let's leave this spat behind us. Friends?

Thanks for the quotes. Per

on
August 11, 2004 - 9:51am

Thanks for the quotes.

Personally I think such topics should be posted when the thread comes to a conclusion, not when it's still halfway as happened now. (At least to a previous commentor the licence squabble was more important than the fact that the code is removed, even if the license allows it to be GPL). Of course then the news is less recent, but people than don't read lkml won't know the end. Or post a follow up with more info later.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.