ok...I`ll wait for Michael`s explanation...
thx

----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von: steve@openmoko.com
Datum: 13.07.2008 17:16
An: "List for Openmoko community discussion"<community@lists.openmoko.org>, <linux4u@bluewin.ch>
Kopie: "Michael Shiloh"<michael@openmoko.org>
Betreff: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down

If your battery falls below a certain level then FreeRunner sometimes will
not charge it.

We are working on fixes for this but in the short term you have these
options.


1. Jump start your battery. Michael will explain how, Takes 5 seconds.
2. Get a stand alone battery charger from Nokia ( for battery types 4bl,
5bl, 6bl)
3. Get a replacement battery.

 

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org
[mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of arne anka
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 7:32 AM
To: linux4u@bluewin.ch; List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full down


anyway -- the guy posting this seemed to have killed his battery (not
finished the thread yet).
regarding you usb-only: maybe your usb port does not supply 500mAh?

btw: your leds flash? mine do nothing -- is this related to the asu image?

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No use in connecting a FR to any source to charge bat, as long as it doesn'=
t=20
boot up. Actually it drains battery even further, instead of charging.
Battery is only charged when booting succeeds.
Jumpstart the battery is very unlikely to help you out.

Get FR booted by any means=20
1.:Remove sim-card!
2.:Use wallcharger to startup.=20
3:borrow battery, apply 4.5V (<5V!!!) to + and minus of battery connector i=
n=20
=46R.=20
After 5~10sec FR should come up and you don't need startup-battery or=20
4.5V-power-source any more - remove it! FR should run happily from=20
wallcharger.
Now *don't* power down, and insert dead battery. battery is going to charge=
=20
now.

Alternative way: find a charger for nokia-bat, or even use an old nokia to=
=20
charge dead battery. e.g. 6230i. If you find a friend who could lend a=20
battery to you, maybe he might prefer to take your bat and charge it for a=
=20
short while.

sorry for the inconvenience.=20
Usually we shouldn't see "dead" batteries. We expect to fix the deep-discha=
rge=20
of bat at software side.=20
The problems with no startup on dead bat are partially a hw-issue. Though=20
Werner has a new u-boot that might help (coming soon), especially when you=
=20
got a device that flashes red aux-led (good sign!).

cheers
jOERG





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[ message continues ]

Thanks jOerg

Michael can we get these instructions ( with pictures) on the wiki
-----Original Message-----
From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org
[mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of Joerg Reisenweber
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 5:55 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org; linux4u@bluewin.ch
Subject: Re: AW: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full
down

No use in connecting a FR to any source to charge bat, as long as it doesn't
boot up. Actually it drains battery even further, instead of charging.
Battery is only charged when booting succeeds.
Jumpstart the battery is very unlikely to help you out.

Get FR booted by any means
1.:Remove sim-card!
2.:Use wallcharger to startup. 
3:borrow battery, apply 4.5V (<5V!!!) to + and minus of battery connector in
FR. 
After 5~10sec FR should come up and you don't need startup-battery or
4.5V-power-source any more - remove it! FR should run happily from
wallcharger.
Now *don't* power down, and insert dead battery. battery is going to charge
now.

Alternative way: find a charger for nokia-bat, or even use an old nokia to
charge dead battery. e.g. 6230i. If you find a friend who could lend a
battery to you, maybe he might prefer to take your bat and charge it for a
short while.

sorry for the inconvenience. 
Usually we shouldn't see "dead" batteries. We expect to fix the
deep-discharge of bat at software side. 
The problems with no startup on dead bat are partially a hw-issue. Though
Werner has a new u-boot that might help (coming soon), especially when you
got a device that flashes red aux-led (good sign!).

cheers
jOERG






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[ message continues ]

For best effects you should do this on a table which can be raised to 
the ceiling, during a lightening storm :-)

Seriously, the goal is simply to provide 4.5VDC from some other source 
to allow the Freerunner to boot. A regulated adjustable power supply is 
an ideal source.

The tricky part is connecting the power supply to pins in the Freerunner 
which would contact the battery. You'll want a steady hand and you 
should be very clear on what you are doing.

I will write up the steps with pictures.

Michael


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Is there any point with the recent uboot patches to allow the system
to boot far enough on usb alone to negotiate enough current for
charging?

(<20080715105441.GB6016@almesberger.net> "[PATCH 0/10] u-boot powering
on from a dead battery" and related posts on -kernel)

-- 
<RetroJ`> here's something interesting about one of these chinese
          pop music videos I've found.. it illustrates the
          cultural barrier nicely.  this young female pop star is
          wearing a t-shirt with the confederate flag

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I don't think so yet. This is being worked on and either I or someone 
else will post here when it's solved.

Michael

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So from my understanding the FR can run off USB but not boot off it?


-- 
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Software issue, not hardware. Once uBoot is updated to a recent version the FR 
should be able to boot off USB power with no battery. You will have to do 
this using dfu-util - see instructions in the wiki.




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patches only exist since yesterday

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Al Johnson

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I was remembering a patch Andy posted on the 3rd, but had forgotten the rest 
of the thread where Werner pointed out it was incomplete and probably 
wouldn't even boot. Good to see it's now been completed.


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That is exactly correct.


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Joerg, can you explain this further?

I've actually had excellent luck jump-starting the battery. I set my 
adjustable power supply at about 4.5V and I connect it directly to the 
battery terminals for just a second, then measure the voltage on the 
battery. If the battery voltage is still zero, I repeat. Usually after a 
few "shocks" the battery comes out of its internal under-voltage protection.

I understand that GTA01 batteries have no hysteresis and need just one 
"shock" (in fact Werner said "one electron" I think) to come out of 
under-voltage protection. I understand that GTA02 batteries have 
hysteresis and require more coulombs injected before they will recover.

Please explain, as I am writing this all up and want to explain it properly.

Michael

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I'm just suspicious a shock-reanimated battery holds enough power (=3Dvolta=
ge)=20
to bring us over the boot gap, and won't activate protection again just in=
=20
no-time when we try to pull energy. That's all. Of course you can shockstar=
t=20
battery out of protect-mode, no doubt. But did you get a boot with such a=20
bat?

/jOERG

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[ message continues ]

I thought so, yes, but I'll check again to verify.

Michael

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Ya jOERG,

 Micheal jump started my battery in about 2 seconds. It was a Young
Frankenstein momement!
 Without the sparks or pretty assistents. Anyways, my reanimated battery
still works fine.

 Anecdotal I know. 

-----Original Message-----
From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org
[mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:44 PM
To: Joerg Reisenweber
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; linux4u@bluewin.ch
Subject: Re: AW: RE: unable to start up freerunner after batterie was full
down





I thought so, yes, but I'll check again to verify.

Michael

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