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Re: In the press

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[view original message]
From: Matt Joyce <matt.joyce@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: In the press
Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 - 12:41 am

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I found this yesterday, thought it was quite an ok article.

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars


This stood out for me "*The tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete

documentation at the OpenMoko wiki*..."

Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ?

If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content and

schedule it for updating?


Matt


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<br>I found this yesterday, thought it was quite an ok article.<br><a href="http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars">http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars</a><br><br>This stood out for me &quot;<b>The tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete

documentation at the OpenMoko wiki</b>...&quot;<br>Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ?<br>If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content and schedule it for updating?<br><br>Matt<br><br><br>


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[view original message]
From: BrendaWang <brenda_wang@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 3:23 am

Dear Matt:

Openmoko Wiki just like WIKIPEDIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Wiki) is a public place everyone can create page , and edit.

Actually , on Openmoko wiki, we have thousand pages. Some topic(page) is

very popular , many people maintains the same page, so it updated soon.

And some page takes long time to complete, so difficult to tell if this

page is complete or not?


Here is the rule I used ,

1.To use the wiki "History "function, find out this page's status.

2.Pages only have title, no content, more then half years, no one edit ,

I delete it.

Then , if anyone , want to create this topic, can create the new page ,

anytime.

3.Use Google Analytic , to tell which page is most popular , and mail

Google analytic page view report to community mailing list.


Brenda


Openmoko Wiki has thousand pages,


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[view original message]
From: Jay Vaughan <jayv@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 - 4:26 am

I think, personally, its time for a 3rd-party site not related to

OpenMoko to pick up the slack here. So much stuff happens too quickly

for people who /should/ be updating the wiki to feel like its

productive to do so ..


What I would like to see is something like an "mokofanboix.org"

website come up that has the following:


- Daily blog news akin to the good ol' slashdot, of news from the

openmoko scene, gleaned from careful inspection of the mailing lists,

of IRC, of the codebase, of code delta's, etc.


- Public free Repository of all the latest and greatest 'cool apps'

found for OpenMoko


- Public forum for discussion of the news.


This is, of course, sorta what we've got with things like

planet.openmoko.org (which I check daily), combined with the

Scaredycat repo's and other such things, but ..  for newcomers .. I

don't think any of this is as easily approachable as it would be if it

were all put under a single umbrella that is a bit more of an

'openmoko pop culture' site than what we've got right now ..


;

--

Jay Vaughan


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[view original message]
From: BrendaWang <brenda_wang@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 3:46 am

You can check here to get more about the free Repository


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[view original message]
From: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 12:47 am

Jay


These are all great ideas and would be very helpful for us. We are a

small company. And really try to focus all we can on our products.

Community help to make these more approachable is something that would

make us all very grateful.


Let me know if there is anything specific you think we (Openmoko) could

do to help get this all started.


   -Sean


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[view original message]
From: Scott Derrick <scott@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>, <sean@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 9:14 am

Man I have to agree.  I'm just jumping on to the OM bandwagon with the

purchase of two freerunners but have reservations about it now.


Looking through the Wiki is a pain and a chore to find useful data. Yes

there are gems in there but they are buried under tons of old and

inaccurate data.


Some people having very basic problems, like making a phone call, or

playing music, charging the phone, right out of the box is really

inexcusable.  And for many this list is the only source of "possible"

solutions! 


If the OM is going to survive and grow into a viable platform something

has to change.  Somebody is going to have to take the reins on

documentation. Information is the key to its success and right now its

in shambles. I'm not trying to point a finger or blame anybody.  I think

the scope has grown beyond the ad-hoc means used up to now, especially

since we have a new phone added to the mix. There has to be some

distinction between the 1973 and the FR because it appears they are not

completely compatible.


I think OM is going to have to step up to the plate and dedicate some

resources to at least organizing/overseeing and enforcing a standard to

the documentation  of  the project so there is coherence, timeliness

and  to reduce the  outdated and  inaccurate information.


Scott


-- 


-

    "Just because I sound like an idiot doesn't mean I agree with the president."....from an ad on Air America Radio


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[view original message]
From: Crane, Matthew <mcrane03@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: RE: In the press
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 9:31 am

I think it's fair to say most open source projects evolve this way.  The

wiki isn't that bad, and if you want to develop starting from any sort

of open and active code base you have to expect a learning curve and

documentation that's not going to be exactly up to date. 


Keep in mind too that following the sort of massive changes prior to a

release it takes a while for the documentation to catch up.


-----Original Message-----

From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org

[mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of Scott Derrick

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:15 AM

To: sean@openmoko.com; List for Openmoko community discussion

Subject: Re: In the press


Man I have to agree.  I'm just jumping on to the OM bandwagon with the

purchase of two freerunners but have reservations about it now.


Looking through the Wiki is a pain and a chore to find useful data. Yes

there are gems in there but they are buried under tons of old and

inaccurate data.


Some people having very basic problems, like making a phone call, or

playing music, charging the phone, right out of the box is really

inexcusable.  And for many this list is the only source of "possible"

solutions! 


If the OM is going to survive and grow into a viable platform something

has to change.  Somebody is going to have to take the reins on

documentation. Information is the key to its success and right now its

in shambles. I'm not trying to point a finger or blame anybody.  I think


the scope has grown beyond the ad-hoc means used up to now, especially

since we have a new phone added to the mix. There has to be some

distinction between the 1973 and the FR because it appears they are not

completely compatible.


I think OM is going to have to step up to the plate and dedicate some

resources to at least organizing/overseeing and enforcing a standard to


the documentation  of  the project so there is coherence, timeliness

and  to reduce the  outdated and  inaccurate information.


Scott


-- 


...
[ message continues ]
[view original message]
From: Jay Vaughan <jayv@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>, <sean@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 6:06 am

Well I'm certainly trying to help in any way I can, while I wait

patiently for my first Freerunner to arrive so I can get on with  


I think the main thing is we should set up a site thats just fanboix

oriented.. and I mean that in a positive way, not derogatorily.

Basically what I'd like to see is something similar to DSFanboy

(dsfanboy.com), which exists for Nintendo DS owners to check

regularly .. if we had such a site set up that could be easily

contributed to with stories and articles and whatnot, it would help a

great deal.


I will continue to glean info from the mailing lists, and in a little

while will consider setting up mokofanboix.org, and maybe take it from

there .. unless someone else is more qualified to do so?


;

--

Jay Vaughan


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[view original message]
From: Ken Restivo <ken@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Cc: <sean@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 7:10 am

This kind of "fork" in the documentation and community is pretty typical in the case of a commercial product that isn't necessarily friendly to hackers. So there's an unofficial fan page where enthusiasts can discuss undocumented/unsupported features, odd uses, hacks, cracks, complain about the manufacturer, diss the users of competing products, and the like. The fan site is owned by the user commmunity and is somewhat isolated from being censored or easily closed down by the manufacturer.


In the Free/Open software world, it's usually very different. It's more typical for that user community to be an integral part of the project itself. There is a much blurrier line between users and developers, and that's pretty much the whole point.


Again, I'll point to the OpenWRT Wiki (and forums, and IRC channel, bug tracker, and mailing list) as a great example of what I consider to be excellent documentation and support for a free project.


-ken


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[view original message]
From: Matt Joyce <matt.joyce@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>, <sean@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 3:28 am

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My take on the problem is that if a new user searches for information, and

finds something promising but it turns out to be wrong, or out of date, they

will probably not update it.

Once they find the information they may not remember (or be inclined) to go

back and update it.


What new user is going to start off by editing an article about stuff they

don't know?


Perhaps one method of identifying information, it to have a simple way to

flagging an article as 'needs checking'.

Wiki moderators and the community at large could focus their efforts there.


MJ


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<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Sean Moss-Pultz &lt;<a href="mailto:sean@openmoko.com">sean@openmoko.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">Jay Vaughan wrote:<br>

&gt;&gt; This stood out for me &quot;The tangled pile of mostly outdated and<br>

&gt;&gt; incomplete documentation at the OpenMoko wiki...&quot;<br>

&gt;&gt; Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ?<br>

&gt;&gt; If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content<br>

&gt;&gt; and schedule it for updating?<br>

&gt;<br>

&gt;<br>

&gt; I think, personally, its time for a 3rd-party site not related to<br>

&gt; OpenMoko to pick up the slack here. So much stuff happens too quickly<br>

&gt; for people who /should/ be updating the wiki to feel like its<br>

&gt; pro...
[ message continues ]
[view original message]
From: Shawn Thompson <mokowatch@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 6:38 am

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Actually I can speak from experience that Matt has hit it on the head. I was

having problems with the moko makefile while trying to test QEMU until I can

afford to get the actual phone. I couldn't figure out why it was building

with a broken GUI, luckily I knew about the mailing lists and someone was

able to point me in the right direction.


-Shawn


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<div dir="ltr">Actually I can speak from experience that Matt has hit it on the head. I was having problems with the moko makefile while trying to test QEMU until I can afford to get the actual phone. I couldn&#39;t figure out why it was building with a broken GUI, luckily I knew about the mailing lists and someone was able to point me in the right direction.<br>

<br>-Shawn<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Matt Joyce &lt;<a href="mailto:matt.joyce@gmail.com">matt.joyce@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br>My take on the problem is that if a new user searches for information, and finds something promising but it turns out to be wrong, or out of date, they will probably not update it.<br>

Once they find the information they may not remember (or be inclined) to go back and update it.<br>

<br>What new user is going to start off by editing an article about stuff they don&#39;t know?<br><br>Perhaps one method of identifying information, it to have a simple way to flagging an article as &#39;needs checking&#39;.<br>


Wiki m...
[ message continues ]
[view original message]
From: matt joyce <matt.joyce@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 - 6:33 am

I agree.

Regardless though, an out of date wiki is not helpful.


What approaches can we take to fix up the wiki


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[view original message]
From: BrendaWang <brenda_wang@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 3:58 am

[Empty message]
[view original message]
From: Vinc Duran <uberpfloyd@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 - 1:14 am

[Empty message]
[view original message]
From: Scott Derrick <scott@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 - 8:06 am

In my opinion , the Wiki sucks....


Very difficult to find any useful information.


Scott


-- 


-

    The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech.


    Molly Ivans 


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[view original message]
From: BrendaWang <brenda_wang@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 4:25 am

How about to use the Openmoko Index page.

This page collect every topic of Wiki.

And depend on the page's content, pages of wiki will classify into right

category.

But now , Software part

(http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Official_Index_Page#Software)

and Technical part , might be not clear enough(

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Official_Index_Page#Technical)

, but in the future, I will make them become more easy to find.

For example, just like this


Part I Choose your software develop tool


Development Environment


For developer


Part II Coding and compile


(OE, Toolchain.....)

Part III Running your program


(Emulation .....)


Part IV Program sharing


Part V Install


Part VI Tools used in Openmoko


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[view original message]
From: David Samblas Martinez <dsamblas@...>
To: <brenda_wang@...>, List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 6:04 am

+ 1 to the clasification, but a visual discrimination about uptodate/outdated/work in progress in this pages will be very useful too.


      ¿No te gusta tu dirección de correo?

Consigue una que te guste de verdad - millones de direcciones de correo disponibles en Yahoo!

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[view original message]
From: Torfinn Ingolfsen <tingox@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 - 9:07 am

Hi,


Usually, I can find the information I am looking for with one or two

searches on te wiki, for me, that's good enough.


Also remember that each and one of us can improve the wiki. Yes, you

can do it yourself.

--

Regards,

Torfinn Ingolfsen


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[view original message]
From: Shawn Thompson <mokowatch@...>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion <community@...>
Subject: Re: In the press
Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 - 1:57 am

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It is rather accurate. I went in an updated a few links to openembed and

also ended up asking the community list for how to do proper emulation as

the steps listed for mokomakefile were producing an unusable QEMU image.


-Shawn


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It is rather accurate. I went in an updated a few links to openembed and also ended up asking the community list for how to do proper emulation as the steps listed for mokomakefile were producing an unusable QEMU image.<br>

<br>-Shawn<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Vinc Duran &lt;<a href="mailto:uberpfloyd@gmail.com">uberpfloyd@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

I think it&#39;s accurate.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Matt Joyce &lt;<a href="mailto:matt.joyce@gmail.com" target="_blank">matt.joyce@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">

<br>I found this yesterday, thought it was quite an ok article.<br><a href="http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars" target="_blank">http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars</a><br><br>This stood out for me &quot;<b>The tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete

documentation at the OpenMoko wiki</b&g...
[ message continues ]
Previous thread: Sim card is not working, how do I run diagnostics? by Adam Talbot on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 10:59 pm. (3 messages)

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