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Breakable
7 Reasons Why the New iPhone 3G Sucks

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http://www.retrevo.com/content/special-reports/2008/06/7-reasons-why-new...

Lets see where we beet it! ;)

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<a href="http://www.retrevo.com/content/special-reports/2008/06/7-reasons-why-new-iph...

Jun 27, 7:07 pm 2008
William Lai
Re: Let us impact the material world

iPod is an artifact for music lovers. Music is part of their lifestyle.
The Neo is part of the lifestyle of every engineer that I work with at
Openmoko. Coding is their life.
Just like I share music with my friends through an ipod, these people
proudly present their creations through a Neo. Whether that be a full
suited application or a blinking light, it really is a pleasure to see
things constantly 'being born'. I'm seeing people impact the material
world everyday, in their own ...

Jun 27, 3:26 pm 2008
Arthur Britto
Re: Community Initiative GTK

Part of what you want need is distribution support. You might find it
amusing to see how crazy fast GPE on Gentoo, a meta Linux distribution,
can be ported to a phone:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/embedded/55281
(Make sure to check out the pictures).

-Arthur

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Jun 27, 2:29 pm 2008
Lorn Potter
Re: Community Initiative GTK

Garmin's nuvifone is based on Qtopia.

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Jun 27, 2:13 pm 2008
Marcus Bauer
Re: Community Initiative GTK

Not the upcoming ones:
http://butterfeet.org/?p=57

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Jun 27, 2:32 pm 2008
Lorn Potter
Re: Community Initiative GTK

That seems to be a different line of devices (in car navigation), and
does not have any gsm features.
http://www8.garmin.com/nuvifone/

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Jun 27, 2:52 pm 2008
Ron K. Jeffries
rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

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Can someone explain the rationale for the decision
to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko
to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)?

As an observer, it's my impression that ASU
represents a significant architectural change
that somehow, Wham! Bang! "just happened."

Transparency is a virtue. <g>

Ron K. Jeffries
http...

Jun 27, 2:01 pm 2008
Stroller
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

Rasterman is the rationale, as far as I can make out.

Stroller.

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Jun 27, 5:11 pm 2008
Kevin Dean Jun 27, 2:12 pm 2008
Dave O'Connor
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

This has been done to death on the mailing list already. The archives
lists it. Can we move on now please?

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Jun 27, 2:11 pm 2008
Steven Le Roux
Re: Community Initiative GTK

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You will still be able to develop what you want with GTK if you want... but
EFL are soooooooooo much beautiful ! (Hmm okay im an e17 user :) can one
feel it ? ;))

EFL are optimized libs slower hardware, more powerful than gtk, wich is just
a gui toolkit. EFL are so much more...

--
Steven Le Roux
Jabber-ID : Steven@jabber.fr
0x39494CCB <stev...

Jun 27, 1:42 pm 2008
Jisakiel
Re: Community Initiative GTK

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You forget the biggest: Nokia (sells as many phones a day as iphones yet so=
ld). Rest are just startups so far, or non-mobile-phone-related... And Noki=
a looks like interested in QTopia (as they bought Trolltech!) ;)

Firefox (xulrunner, as the GUI is not appropiate) can be replaced by khtml,=
or however it is called now that it's part of qt 4.4. Openoffice in a phon=
e does not...

Jun 27, 1:17 pm 2008
Lorn Potter
Re: Community Initiative GTK

14 Nokia phones are made each second.

Qt will be a common API across all Nokia platforms.

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Jun 27, 2:14 pm 2008
Joachim Steiger
Re: Community Initiative GTK

would be nice.

e.g. take the last gtk-based ui apps, rip out all libgsmd and neod
dependencies and start communicating with the new middleware from FSO.

this would basically solve all 'call stability' problems from gsmd times
and give you the same, maintained middleware which in the future
hopefully all openmoko devices will use.

kind regards

--

Joachim Steiger
Openmoko Central Services

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Jun 27, 12:53 pm 2008
Tilman Baumann
Re: Community Initiative GTK

My idea too.
I would like to see this...

For what it is worth, the original GTK platform is nod dead. Attention
just shifted away.
And stability is ok as far as i can tell.
Gsmd allegedly breaks standby. But works for me.

Will see. I find the look and the UI design in general really well choosen.
But it is not GTK what buys me. As long as GTK is there as a lib for
compatibility. (which is AFAIK also the case with the other builds based
on X11)
But i would not mind if the Toolkit of the ...

Jun 27, 2:27 pm 2008
Shawn Rutledge
Re: Community Initiative GTK

So just to be clear, FSO stands for FreeSmartphone.Org?

And that stuff is working so well that it can replace gsmd and neod already?

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Jun 27, 2:14 pm 2008
jluis
Re: Community Initiative GTK

I will try to be there but I fell sort of resources and skills

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Jun 27, 11:26 am 2008
Joe Pfeiffer
Re:Community Initiative GTK

I for one definitely prefer GTK: as a toolkit I know and like it (in
fairness I haven't developed for qt -- I have GTK and especially
GTKmm), but in general I find I prefer the "look" of GTK-based apps
better).

I also felt the direction the phone was moving up until the ASU was
looking very good and promising to me. It was much more along the
lines of a handheld computer with phone featuers, which is what I
want (the automatic sync with evolution was also very nice).

I just noticed the other d...

Jun 27, 11:16 am 2008
Francesco Cat
Re: Community Initiative GTK

I must have missed something... Can you post some links to explain
what are the future plans for the Software Stack? Will GTK not be
present any more?

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Jun 27, 11:27 am 2008
Marcus Bauer
Re: Community Initiative GTK

Basically Openmoko has stopped the development of the GTK stack in order
to start a new stack called ASU. There are some 10.000 developers for
GTK who can start any time making software for the Neo while there are
very few developers for ASU, maybe 50. ASU is only used on the Neo
whereas your GTK apps will run on the desktop or on the new MID devices
like the ASUS eeePC right out of the box. Naturally for an open source
developer it is a difference if the software will run on some hundred
Neos or o...

Jun 27, 11:56 am 2008
Mike Doody
Re: Community Initiative GTK

I'm confused what this ASU stack is that you are talking about? When
I look at the architecture picture on the framework page
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework I don't see ASU. I see
Gtk+ and Qtopia and Enlightenment (and X11).

So this ASU stack is only used on the Neo and nowhere else? If ASU is
Qtopia or EFL, then I'm not so sure that's true...

Regards,
-mike

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Jun 27, 2:10 pm 2008
Tilman Baumann
Re: Community Initiative GTK

A Qtpia build based on X11. (Qtopia is usually framebuffer)
Fancy enlightenment launcher and applications menu.
Qtopia base apps.
And some individual new apps only seen on this platform. i think based

It's both.
--
Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus.
Please print this mail only on recycled paper.

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Jun 27, 2:22 pm 2008
Stroller
Re: Community Initiative GTK. X11 on ASU?

Am I right in understanding that the earlier software stack wrote GTK
to the framebuffer, whereas the ASU required the incorporation of an
X11 server to the image?

Stroller.

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Jun 27, 1:02 pm 2008
Markus Schlichting Jun 27, 1:48 pm 2008
cedric cellier
Re: Community Initiative GTK

IIRC GTK is still present and always will be. But there are no more
plans to varous a complete software set based on it. Apparently, this
is more or less considered a feature from the OM team that no GUI is
prefered over the other.

Which is why I wondered what happended to the previous plans to provide
a complete "mobility software set". But perhaps the aim of OpenMoko has

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[ message continues ]

" title="http://l...">http://l...

Jun 27, 11:52 am 2008
Joseph Reeves
Re: Community Initiative GTK

I wondered the exact same thing. From the front page of the wiki:

"Openmoko™ born as an Open Source project under GPL and LGPL license
and dedicated to delivering an open software stack on mobile
platforms, shipped its first product, the Neo 1973, on July 9 2007;
and then, turned the project into a start-up company with one aim:
create great mobile products using the Openmoko stack: Open. Mobile.
Free."

So the plan from the early days was to release an Open Source software
stack, but this s...

Jun 27, 12:04 pm 2008
cedric cellier
Re: Community Initiative GTK

Im not sure I understand anything about OpenMoko software plans.
So I will reply your question with another, probably dumb one :
Is anyone planning to try maemo on the freerunner ?

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Jun 27, 11:14 am 2008
arne anka
Re: Community Initiative GTK

> Is anyone planning to try maemo on the freerunner ?

my question, too.
and what about ubuntu mobile? does anybody know whether the plan to test
it on om? at least it's the first open phone in the wild -- should be a
given development platform for them ...

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Jun 27, 11:26 am 2008
Jisakiel
Re: Community Initiative GTK

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IIRC ubuntu mobile was only x86 based, and addressed to bigger devices than=
a phone (such as the Mobile Internet Devices - closer to n810 or even to a=
sus EEE than to a phone).=20

What I'd really love is to see android software stack running on the moko. =
Still not possible as android is not open, but they were supposed to free t=
he whole stack, which should make possible t...

Jun 27, 1:20 pm 2008
Christ van Willegen
Re: Community Initiative GTK

First of all, I'd be interrested in getting things to build on an iMac
G5. After that, we'll see where it goes. I'm not against tha idea,
although I'd have to learn to program TK (but learning a new plaform
seems to be my forte lately...)

If all else fails, I'll get an older PC off of eBay (or Marktplaats
for the dutch). A Linux capable 700MHz (ish) PC with a 16G harddrive
should suffice to install Ubuntu ad software stack, but getting it on
my hom Mac would be better.

Christ van Willegen
-- ...

Jun 27, 11:07 am 2008
jluis
Re: Community Initiative GTK

I have my Santa Rosa iMac building package & images over an usb storage
using ubuntu & mokomakefile; You don't have any need to invest in other
hardware

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Jun 27, 11:34 am 2008
Christ van Willegen
Re: Community Initiative GTK

That's an Intel Mac, not a G5 one...

Christ van Willegen
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Jun 27, 12:01 pm 2008
arne anka
Re: Community Initiative GTK

not sure, if you confuse something:
gtk!=tk
gtk is a c based toolkit used by gnome and gimp, tk ist a gui toolkit on

i think you are far better of with a pc with about 1.5 ghz and a bigger
harddisk.
developing requires a lot of additional packages which take up a lot of
space -- and a fast cpu is a real blessing when compiling often. besides,
i don't think the price will differ much ...

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Jun 27, 11:30 am 2008
Christ van Willegen
Re: Community Initiative GTK

That was a typoe for GTK...

You have a point there, but having built all the packages, the Moko
files will probably only be a couple of thousands of lines...

Christ van Willegen
--
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Jun 27, 12:02 pm 2008
Flemming Richter Mik...
Re: humor

http://xkcd.org/440/ describes a use case for the neo:)

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Jun 27, 3:49 am 2008
Hans L
Re: humor

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen

Is it possible to use the WiFi in the FreeRunner as an access point?

-Hans

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Jun 27, 11:47 am 2008
Flemming Richter Mik...
Re: humor

I think the WiFi chip does not support AP mode.

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Jun 27, 3:13 pm 2008
Atilla Filiz
Re: humor

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SnVuIDI3LCAyMDA4IGF0IDU6NDcgUE0sIEhhbnMgTCA8dGhlaGF...

Jun 27, 3:04 pm 2008
Mikko Rauhala
No WLAN AP functionality

Sadly no, as it's a hardmac chip and the proprietary firmware lacks this
feature. You should be able to use ad hoc mode for most purposes, albeit
not always as conveniently.

--
Mikko Rauhala <mjrauhal@cc.helsinki.fi>
University of Helsinki

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Jun 27, 11:51 am 2008
Crane, Matthew
RE: No WLAN AP functionality

But if you can plug a usb wifi stick which the kernel does support AP
mode you could then use the internal wifi as the uplink.

Be subversive, provide free wifi at airports!

-----Original Message-----
From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org
[mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of Mikko Rauhala
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:51 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: No WLAN AP functionality

Sadly no, as it's a hardmac chip and the proprietary firmware lacks...

Jun 27, 12:49 pm 2008
Rod Whitby
Re: No WLAN AP functionality

I'm finding it difficult to source a cheap usb wifi stick that Linux
supports in AP mode. Do you have an example of one that you know works
in this way, and has Linux drivers available for armel (which
immediately cuts out any madwifi drivers due to eabi) ?

-- Rod

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Jun 27, 7:12 pm 2008
Evgeny Ginzburg
Re: Freifunk@FreeRunner: OLSRD

Nice enough!
I really like mesh networking protocols work on Neos.
Maybe I'll try to run Netsukuku.
OK first I have to buy one.

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Jun 27, 6:31 am 2008
Robert Schuster
Re: Freifunk@FreeRunner: OLSRD

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156)
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Hi.

We do not have netsukuku recipes in OE yet. But that could be fixed
quickly if it is easy to build.

Volunteering to provide a recipe? Then you can have the binary before
your phone arrives. :)

Regards
Robert

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Jun 27, 8:54 am 2008
Andreas Micklei
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?

Or to a portable headphone amplifier like this one:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/headsix-head-fi-support-sales-action-26...

I have been using one of these with my iPod for over a year now and the
improvement combined with good headphones is very noticeable. I don't even
use high-end headphones, just the usual mid-range Sony DJ headphones (~50-80
EUR)

Sure it's bulky and one more box to carry around, but the usual mobile devices
with their low voltage batteries will probably never be...

Jun 27, 5:37 am 2008
xming
freerunner in Taiwan

Hi all,

I will be in Taiwan during July and I would like to pick up a
freerunner there. Does
anyone knows where to buy? Or can I go by the FIC/OM office and get from the
source :)

TIA

xming

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Jun 27, 8:36 am 2008
Sean Moss-Pultz
Re: freerunner in Taiwan

Should be possible. But I'm out of the country so I don't know the if we
have any left.

Ask Harry (harry@openmoko.com).

-Sean

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Jun 27, 7:40 pm 2008
Hartung, Christopher
AW: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop

Dito :-D

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org [mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] Im Auftrag von Marcel
Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Juni 2008 12:32
An: List for Openmoko community discussion
Betreff: Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop

Yay! Just ordered mine. :]

-marcel

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Jun 27, 6:41 am 2008
Christoph Pulster
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop

We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July) and accept orders now.
Price 299 eur incl. VAT. A cheap price means more owners.
That's what the community needs.

Christoph

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Jun 27, 5:04 am 2008
Bumbl
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop

Ordered mine too
with bag and headphones

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Jun 27, 11:51 am 2008
Mike Baroukh
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop

Where do you saw a bag ?
Is there any options ? I didn't see where ...

I also ordered mine but without the debug board I did not found ...

thanks.

Mike

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