login
Search
Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night: I fully charged my Freerunner, inserted the TMobile SIM card, and set it beside my computer speakers with Amarok looping some of my more rockin' tunes. I made sure the only thing left 'on' on the Freerunner was the GSM modem (wifi which is on by default, was turned off). I also enabled power-saving (dim, no lock -- but it locks anyway) I called it from my AT&T phone, which I plugged in next to my TV and watched two full movies from Netflix and 3 episodes of The Dead Zone. In that span, where both phones would have audio to play back and forth to one another, my AT&T phone beeped after 3 hours, 51 minutes and 11 seconds that the connection was broken. I immediately redialed the Freerunner, and since it was already at about 90 minutes into the second call, I went to bed. I got up this morning to see that my AT&T phone ended the call after 2 hours, 11 minutes and 21 seconds. I figured this went one of two ways -- the Freerunner ran out of battery power, or I ran out of minutes from TMobile. My TMobile SIM card was a 1,000-minute pay-as-you-go SIM, which is about 16.7 hours of talk time, which I've only ever used for my Freerunner tests ... so having only three 3:51:00 phone calls (give or take a few minutes) and one 2:11:21 call that I still have plenty of minutes left on my SIM card, and sure enough -- the battery on the Freerunner was completely dead. (as a side note, it's nice to see that a deeply discharged Freerunner doesn't have the same issue as the GTA01 where you have to charge it for an hour before anything shows on the screen) Since I have TMobile minutes left, I'll finally get around to testing the phone from various alternate locations this coming weekend with the TMobile SIM, and I'll swap it out for the AT&T SIM if needed. To recap: - GSM turned on - wifi turned off - bluetooth turned off - gps turned off - power saving enabled (dim, no lock) - total talk time of ...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Lasse Poulsen wrote: |> Also it would be nice to see how long call time you have if you talk |> continually (might i suggest an audio-book or to). If you don't i |> properly will (haven't got the device yet!) | | | Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night: Just a little point about these tests, AIUI the GPS stuff acts radically differently in terms of current consumption depending on the distance from the base station. All we can reasonably do is compare same-tester results for their different phones from the same physical location. - -Andy -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+9EcACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpslACdH6bGOPNwScfU0UgjoiR/kUDh bgAAn2Vtt/O8ZhkgpiT8X6g3iEgEhwSa =ctuM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
--nextPart2119080.LrHIYZA5pc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Yep! exactly, due to tx-power calibration, cell-handover etc.=20 /jOERG --nextPart2119080.LrHIYZA5pc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBIPwlZ7Xtwhpk1UgwRAmTHAJ9Kyy+4LT6ZH0tjxO5hNQ8rZYhazQCgqDX9 R1Ax7B/zkZOYg4BaMBaGsUA= =RBqG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2119080.LrHIYZA5pc--
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Andy Green: |> Somebody in the thread at some point said: |> | Lasse Poulsen wrote: |> |> Also it would be nice to see how long call time you have if you talk |> |> continually (might i suggest an audio-book or to). If you don't i |> |> properly will (haven't got the device yet!) |> | |> | |> | Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night: |> |> Just a little point about these tests, AIUI the GPS stuff acts radically | s/GPS/GSM/ ;) Yeah. What it means is you can compare two tests done at the same location, but we can expect different results from the same phone when the test is done in another location. So A-B testing Freerunner against "Brand X" phone at the same location is a valid test and we can directly compare the results. But probably we will see mails from one guy saying his Freerunner with GSM on lasted n hours, another guy is n+2 hours, etc, instead of variation in Freerunner it can mean variation in the amount of effort the RF section has to do to talk in the two locations. - -Andy -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg/x5kACgkQOjLpvpq7dModwgCggcAgO2OzZJGsDWXJhkSuh5NO PIMAn1DliiSGFdWzXxh3f8jqN+GxmNwF =+5X6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I'm assuming you meant "GSM" not "GPS", so as I understand your point, a better test would be actually having the Neo move around geographically to hop to/from different cell towers, and that a test like this will give more realistic battery usage statistics? In theory, it sounds very reasonable if it will draw varying amount of current from the battery. Thanks for the idea. Given the cost of gasoline these days, though much lower than in Europe, I'm not sure spending two tanks of gas to drive around for 4-6 hours to achieve more usage stats will be feasible. I think that knowing a "best case scenario" (where you stay in the same location), you get about 6 hours of talk time, is still helpful. Cell phone manufacturers typically report a "best case scenario" when reporting talk time and standby time, with the legalese and fine print stating that "your results may vary" from their data. Thoughts? -id _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
--nextPart4701789.JQMipLnpyf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I think *not* moving for all tests (and different types of cellphones to=20 compare) is near a "best case" scenario for standby time - anyway place som= e=20 sensitive radio or the like near the phone, to hear the typical interferenc= e=20 noise when it is sending, just to make sure you don't sit on a "bad spot"=20 where the phone changes cell every few minutes. =46or "best case" talktime scenarios the distance to basestation is much mo= re=20 important. Here you should check for *very* good RF-signal, means very near= =20 to BS and thus allowing the phone-transmitter to power down to lowest level. Also note that GSM without simcard is constantly reselecting cells, so ener= gy=20 consumption is really bad. Switch off GSM when not registering to a network. /jOERG --nextPart4701789.JQMipLnpyf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBIPyGc7Xtwhpk1UgwRAm/YAJ49EB9QLz4I0rCEIv5YRBLaXfsKKACgqYFF sGEDOqPHHftCcSz+oW42QQk= =MAyv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart4701789.JQMipLnpyf--
I agree, and we can't ask you more than testing like you're doing. Unfortunately I don't live always in places where's there's full GSM signal strength (there are mountains, here! :P), so I already thought to this issue, but I didn't hope in test in this scenario... The only thing I'm asking to you, Ian, is to report the GSM signal strength in your testing zone, just to complete the informations you've already given. Anyway, I'll appreciate so much if another one of the lucky Freerunner owners could make a battery test (also just a "standby" one) in a place with low GSM coverage... Thanks again! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Thanks for your thoughts, Marco. As of today I have 165 minutes remaining of my 1,000 minute TMobile SIM card, so I'll have to restock it to do any more tests. I think TMobile still has their "1000-minutes for $100" special going on, so I'll stock Fair enough. I'll report on that when I get home as my office building is probably more shielded than my apartment. I live near the beach, no mountains to really speak of, and my AT&T phone, which was always showing EDGE connectivity at my old apartment always shows full-bandwidth "3G" at the new apartment, which is partly why I wanted As soon as my Freerunner is back to full-charge, I'll try to emulate Einstein's standby tests with all 4 components (GSM, WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS) turned on, then off, and report my own findings. I'll try to do it with both SIM cards, if that makes any difference, and without any SIM at all -- I'm curious if having no SIM card will emulate "low GSM coverage" with the phone trying to constantly register on a network. Since I have 5,000 evening/weekend minutes with AT&T, once I fill up my TMobile card again, I'll take my Freerunner and Blackjack 2 on errands this weekend, see if I can spend more than 6 hours connecting the two phones again in varying locations around Los Angeles. If anyone else has suggestions on how to test battery life, I'd love to hear them. Especially from Michael and Steve, as they can probably direct us a little better on what kinds of real-life scenario testing they'd like us to help in. I'm going to see if I can write a CPU-intensive script to run on the Freerunner too, see if I can time how long the battery will last with the CPU running 100% ... again, just a curiosity. -id _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ian douglas schrieb: | Thanks for your thoughts, Marco. | | | Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: |> I agree, and we can't ask you more than testing like you're doing. | | As of today I have 165 minutes remaining of my 1,000 minute TMobile SIM card, so I'll have to restock it to do any more tests. I think TMobile still has their "1000-minutes for $100" special going on, so I'll stock up later this evening. Wow, phoning is really expensive at your location. When you do some more tests it might be cheaper to make holidays in e.g. germany. I pay 30 € / month and can call T-Mobile and landline as much as I want to. If I had a Freerunner then I would support you. But there is a little problem with this. :-( | |> The only thing I'm asking to you, Ian, is to report the GSM signal strength in your testing zone, just to complete the informations you've already given. | | Fair enough. I'll report on that when I get home as my office building is probably more shielded than my apartment. I live near the beach, no mountains to really speak of, and my AT&T phone, which was always showing EDGE connectivity at my old apartment always shows full-bandwidth "3G" at the new apartment, which is partly why I wanted to do some testing around my old apartment. | |> Anyway, I'll appreciate so much if another one of the lucky Freerunner owners could make a battery test (also just a "standby" one) in a place with low GSM coverage... | | As soon as my Freerunner is back to full-charge, I'll try to emulate Einstein's standby tests with all 4 components (GSM, WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS) turned on, then off, and report my own findings. I'll try to do it with both SIM cards, if that makes any difference, and without any SIM at all -- I'm curious if having no SIM card will emulate "low GSM coverage" with the phone trying to constantly register on a network. | | Since I have 5,000 evening/weekend minutes with AT&T, once I fill up my ...
If I paid for a monthly voice/data plan with TMobile, I'm sure I'd have more minutes to spare. With my AT&T plan, I pay $39.99 and have 450 daytime minutes and 5000 evening and weekend minutes per month, which is more than enough for my wife and I to use. -id _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
--nextPart2685387.cQfh7QEVsU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Standby doesn't vary with signal-strength. Just receiver is active (except= =20 T3210 every few hours), so it should be no difference. Talktime goes down with distance^2.5 I guess.=20 /j --nextPart2685387.cQfh7QEVsU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBIP0Gf7Xtwhpk1UgwRAkABAJ0f2VCQ9IxCKQjQsEy4fmXKVilsZwCgsG6v azwed/MhuD6VZM4igMYgIAc= =OskF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2685387.cQfh7QEVsU--
Ah... Thanks for the info. I thought this since my actual mobile battery really dies so slowly when I'm on places where there's good GSM coverage. But maybe it's due to something else! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
This test might not even be 'best case'. A better test would be having the Neo really close to the cell tower for optimal conditions. I guess the difference between testing far away from the cell tower and testing close to the tower might be pretty big. There probably also is a difference between GSM900 and GSM1800 (iirc 1800 has a lower range which needs to be compensated by higher transmission power). AVee -- When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute -- and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity. -- Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
--nextPart5538459.InJrqTPiJD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline e=20 Nope, 1800 has half the max output, which is compensated by closer grid of = BS. Anyway I guess for "best case" it's no difference. /j --nextPart5538459.InJrqTPiJD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBIPzyc7Xtwhpk1UgwRAnVPAJ4sWUu6i1c3VznvIhqqs8NkQXQ41gCePqt0 6IJKoPtRKL6xJJlh0/2GlWY= =cpZT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --n