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I know everyone at OM has been busting their butts to get things pushed =
out, but the proto has been in the hands of many people for ~1 month and =
a half+. Is there any more info on how long the battery lasts?
=20
I know this will get kicked back to "it depends what options you have =
turned on(i.e. WiFi, GPS, etc.), but with everything powered, sitting on =
my hip in stand-by, making 30 minutes of calls a day(nobody ever calls =
me that long, but the wife) what can we expect(1 day, =BD day?)
=20
I know my new company Palm Treo in stand-by all day(email only) and no =
calls only lasts 2 days. With the freerunner I will sacrifice battery =
for Freedom :-).
=20
Steve/Michael: I will gladly assist in getting these stats and supply =
you with my Fed-Ex number if you wish for me to conduct this test for =
the community.
=20
V/R
=20
Lee
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p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, ...I did some very rough testing of the FreeRunner battery life today; keep checking planet.openmoko.org for a more fleshed out report sometime in the week, but here's some numbers so far. My FreeRunner has been almost always on since I received it, so this was one of the few times that the battery has died due to lack of charge, and certainly one of the few days that I haven't plugged it into my laptop so I could play around with it. The test methodology: I've got two FreeRunners that were left to charge fully overnight and for a morning. At midday I unplugged them both and set the power management mode to "dim only, don't lock". Despite how this may sound, it does lock the screen, but doesn't put the phone into any sort of standby mode. It seems full powered, but with a dimmed screen. One phone remained on my desk for the day, the other came with me whilst I enjoyed the bank holiday break from work. During the course of the day I had the GSM modem powered at all times and the wifi running for a good couple of hours, although it rarely did much apart from iwlist eth0 scan. I sent and received a couple of text messages and received a very short phone call. I watched whilst my girlfriend tried to use the dialler and contact apps for what felt like an age, but probably wasn't very long. I also posed with it in front of some folks with iPhones in a coffee shop; the poor fools didn't seem to realise the nerd spectacle they were being treated to, however. The battery died just before 8 in the evening. The phone that was on my desk lasted less than an hour longer although did (if memory serves correctly) have wifi turned on all day. I'll continue to take unscientific measurements during the week and craft some sort of blog post of it. Joseph _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Oh... Finally some good battery tests! I think they're really good since there's no suspend use at all (that should save most of the power). Thanks and keep sending us your good reports! ;) -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I've just conducted some very brief (accidental) battery testing: I charged my FreeRunner yesterday and unplugged it when I left work (about 5 PM). it was on "Dim first then lock" power management mode. Took the phone home with me, left it untouched all evening, came back to work this morning and left it on my desk. At about 2 this afternoon I pushed the power button, it came out of suspend and displayed that the power meter was still green. Note, during this period the suspend function was working as I'd expect it to: It goes into that mode and stays off until you push the power button. The phone was also able to be woken up by calling it. What usually happens, however, is that the phone randomly wakes itself up out of suspend mode, shows the screen lock and goes back to sleep. If you've ever gone to bed with a FreeRunner somewhere in the room, you'll know that this is very annoying. During this cyclical behaviour the battery is drained very quickly. Today, unfortunately, I ran opkg update && upgrade and seem to have reintroduced this power management bug. Since earlier this afternoon therefore, the phone has been repeatedly waking itself up and suspending again. Battery life has drastically suffered as a result. Joseph _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Finally I've found something! Einstein from freeyourphone.de got a Freerunner and started a very good report [1], also if it's only in German (Google Language tools could help you, but I hope that the review author will post some informations written in English here too), it states that actually the battery lasts about 8-8.5 hours in standby (!= suspend mode, so with running CPU). He doesn't exactly say what he's running, but at least GSM is going. I agree in saying that this is a good starting point, since the suspend-mode (so with most devices off) isn't yet available in Freerunner (due to kernel bugs, I guess) and that should increase (a lot) the battery life. I hope that both Einstein and Kevin Dean would post other informations about this important topic. Bye [1] http://tinyurl.com/55tt3h -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Hi Marco, i say 8 hours. GSM only runs, no wifi or gps or someting else. At the moment i don't found any powermanagment... so only the screen dims and lock... Greets Einstein _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Ok, good... Could you do also other tests? Anyway, when you said "8 hours", did you mean only 8 hours of GSM "standby" or also with few SMSs or calls? Thanks! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Will the be a good powermanagment when the neo is released? And will this increase the battery time? Alexander Frøyseth _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Not the most perfect translate, but you can understand it. http://no.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-... The interface is norwegian, but the translate is english Alexander Frøyseth _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Maybe I am missing something. But does this mean, that if I want my phone to be able to receive calls it will only last 8-8.5 hours?. Or can I recieve calls from suspend mode? So the phone will be able to wake up when a call i coming in? Furthermore is 8-8.5 hours equal to _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Of course... The phone will be able to wake from suspend mode if a GSM event is taken. Anyway it seems that current kernels doesn't allow this. I don't know about music-listening power usage, but I figure it will be a little more than simple GSM standby usage. -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Will be interesting to see. _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Tomorrow i will test how long the freerunner runs by playing music over the speaker in the device. Greets Einstein _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Hey, Just to ask, will it be possible to buy a bigger battery for the freerunner? Or is the size it is already pushing it to the limit? Because others phones seem to have batterys that last forever, or is that just because they do bugger all half the time except sit and wait on GSM activity? I'm not sure what mAh you can get a mobile battery up to, but it would be nice to know... And also, if you can... would it be a standard sized battery, or is it one made specially for openmoko in a special shape or something? Thanks very much, Samuel Melrose sam@feel-the-darkness.co.uk _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I'm also doing some testing on a Freerunner for Michael and Steve, and I
have one thing to share about battery life.
With the ASU software, with no power saving at all, I placed a phone
call to my Freerunner with a T-Mobile SIM from an AT&T phone. There was
no audio, just two phones sitting side by side. The next morning, of
course, the Freerunner was completely drained (my AT&T phone was plugged
into its charger). The phone call lasted 3 hours and 52 minutes -- just
shy of 4 full hours.
I'm running another test right now with power saving turned on (dimming,
no locking), to see if that has any additional impact on call life.
There's also minor audio going on, as my wife is in the office/nursery
building some cabinets for the baby we're expecting in October.
Once these, and a few other power-related tests are done, I plan to
travel around Los Angeles a little, testing the tri-band coverage in
various areas of the city.
I've written a few notes to Michael off-list about the ASU software, but
wanted to share that of the various test calls I've made to/from land
lines, VoIP lines (with Vonage) and various cell phones on AT&T and
Verizon to the Freerunner with both AT&T and TMobile SIM cards, I've
only had a single call with no outgoing audio. The SMS software is very
basic, but complete (no MMS tested yet).
The terminal application is usable, but the new keyboard isn't terribly
useful as there are no slash ('/') or pipe ('|') characters which are
pretty necessary for using a command line.
I'm also ordering an 8GB SDHC micro SD card to test some 8GB storage
usaes. So far the 512MB micro SD that shipped with the phone works
great. I'll test it with a 2GB non-SDHC micro SD when this next phone
battery test is complete.
Since others have covered the packaging and accessories, I won't bother
to echo their notes too.
More later,
Ian Douglas
_______________________________________________
Openmoko community mailing ...You mentioned "power saving" twice on the ASU and mention "dim then lock". If I understand it correctly, ASU is the Qtopia based stack that includes Illume, Diversity, Campwifi et cetera. There's no "dim then lock" setting on that stack. Exposure doesn't have any power settings that I know of. _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I'm using whatever software was installed on the phone, which I understand to be the ASU stack -- all that's installed on the phone is a dialer, SMS application, terminal application, a screenshot capture and contact list manager. When you hold the power button for a few seconds, you see a menu where you can turn on/off the GSM modem (default: on), GPS (default: off), bluetooth (default: off), wifi (default: on), then a drop-down list of three power settings: - no power saving at all - dim without locking (which as I understand locks it anyway) - dim with locking Ian Douglas _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
To follow up, the second phone call hung up after 3 hours and 54 minutes -- only a two minute saving, but the Freerunner's battry icon still showed lots of power available, instead of being completely drained like my test with power saving turned off. Since the call ended about the same amount of time as my test last night (236 minutes vs 234 minutes), I'm curious if either AT&T or TMobile simply kill a phone call just shy of 4 hours of talk time to free up their network. To solve that riddle, I'll try both my AT&T SIM card and TMobile SIM card in the Freerunner and call it from my Vonage VoIP line, see if I can narrow down what killed the call. My speculation at this point is that the 3 hour 52 minute call last night that drained my battery might not have drained the Freerunner's battery completely, but that the phone just ran out of power at some point after the phone call because power saving was turned off. Stay tuned, Ian Douglas _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
That sounds likely. With GSM the cost of a call is only calculated once the call completes, if there is no limit on the length of call, someone who steals a GSM phone, can keep a call going for several days, and the network only finds out when they hang up. If the call is to an expensive international destination ($2 per minute) The cost to the network could be high. Because of this most networks limit the length of calls. The details of the scam are described in chapter 17 of "Security Engineering" by Ross Anderson. You can download a PDF copy from this page: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/book.html Back to your test, As far as I know there is no limit on the length of calls from landlines, so one solution would be to call the Freerunner from an landline. The other option would be to do what phone manufacturers do, which is to measure the current drain from the battery, and calculate the talk time from the battery capacity. Don't forget to be unreasonably optimistic about signal strength, and battery life. :-) -- David Pottage Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function. _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Would there be a problem with doing two (or more) calls in series and just adding up the time of each call? I would be impressed if the battery survived through two near four hour calls. Just be sure to start the _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Sounds expensive Ian! Keep up the good research ;) As for the OS, wouldn't it be the GTK frozen snapshot (pre QT)? Steve said the ASU was at a pre-Alpha stage and I can't see it going out on the sample phones unless you've updated it yourself recently. If it's not the case then mea culpa. -Nick _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Ian got a phone with the Apps based on GTK. everyone will. However, I wanted to let the community see the NEXT STEP. So the next step ( ASU) is now public. you need a GTA02 to appreciate it. and even then it's a raw first look at pre alpha software. maybe Kevin Dean or the Ians can make some vids of ASU. -----OrThe phone will iginal Message----- From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org [mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of nickd Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 10:43 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: My experience with the Freerunner Sounds expensive Ian! Keep up the good research ;) As for the OS, wouldn't it be the GTK frozen snapshot (pre QT)? Steve said the ASU was at a pre-Alpha stage and I can't see it going out on the sample phones unless you've updated it yourself recently. If it's not the case then mea culpa. -Nick _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
On Mon, 26 May 2008 21:27:05 -0700 It might be that there is no sound for n minutes and then the operator/switchboard thinks thant you simply forgot to hang up or something thous freeing the line. Also it would be nice to see how long call time you have if you talk continually (might i suggest an audio-book or to). If you don't i properly will (haven't got the device yet!) If you live in an area where the network is subject to heavy load i think the service provider just might disconnect you call if a more important one comes along like a 112/911 call. I'm not a phone phreak (yet!) this is just my 2¢ - Lasse _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Talk time is an interesting metric. It would be cool to see how "claimed" talk times correspond with measured talk times. -----Original Message----- From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org [mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 5:47 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: My experience with the Freerunner (was: Any Stats on Batterylife....) I'm also doing some testing on a Freerunner for Michael and Steve, and I have one thing to share about battery life. With the ASU software, with no power saving at all, I placed a phone call to my Freerunner with a T-Mobile SIM from an AT&T phone. There was no audio, just two phones sitting side by side. The next morning, of course, the Freerunner was completely drained (my AT&T phone was plugged into its charger). The phone call lasted 3 hours and 52 minutes -- just shy of 4 full hours. I'm running another test right now with power saving turned on (dimming, no locking), to see if that has any additional impact on call life. There's also minor audio going on, as my wife is in the office/nursery building some cabinets for the baby we're expecting in October. Once these, and a few other power-related tests are done, I plan to travel around Los Angeles a little, testing the tri-band coverage in various areas of the city. I've written a few notes to Michael off-list about the ASU software, but wanted to share that of the various test calls I've made to/from land lines, VoIP lines (with Vonage) and various cell phones on AT&T and Verizon to the Freerunner with both AT&T and TMobile SIM cards, I've only had a single call with no outgoing audio. The SMS software is very basic, but complete (no MMS tested yet). The terminal application is usable, but the new keyboard isn't terribly useful as there are no slash ('/') or pipe ('|') characters which are pretty necessary for using a command line. I'm also ordering an 8GB SDHC micro ...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Jens Fursund wrote: |> Maybe I am missing something. But does this mean, that if I want my |> phone to be able to receive calls it will only last 8-8.5 hours?. Or |> can I recieve calls from suspend mode? So the phone will be able to |> wake up when a call i coming in? | | Of course... The phone will be able to wake from suspend mode if a GSM | event is taken. Anyway it seems that current kernels doesn't allow this. | | Maybe a core-dev could give us more informations about this bug. Real Linux suspend and GSM wake "work OK" for some values of work. But wake is subject to some tricky driver ordering bugs that highly depend on kernel config right now, which folks are working on. The config I use which has most things in the monolithic kernel, suspend ~ and resume is fast (~1s suspend, ~1s resume), reliable and repeatable. ~ The distribution config is different and folks report various troubles we didn't solve yet. It seems the underlying stuff is good and this is "a software issue". - -Andy -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg6gwcACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoXKQCfd6ZSUnBhsVgTzWHZk3SRFS1z fkUAn2y+X4XVeS0TXF4N0zYj2wfjc0s/ =mkMb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Cool to get a confirmation about this... I hope you'll be able to fix it soon, so users that will buy a Freerunner will be able to update their kernels with a full-suspend/resume one. We're waiting news! :) -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Just to notify: Einstein has updated his post [1] with a battery test done using the mwester suspend-enabled kernel [2] and, if I've understood well (I don't speak German, if someone could help [also translating his reports]...), he got about 12hours of use. He doesn't specify what has done, but I figure a standard daily use... [1] http://tinyurl.com/55tt3h [2] http://moko.mwester.net/ -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
so i try to translate the important things: The test was on a Freerunner used the kernel from mike with the suspend mode. He used the OM Software because the ASU was hangup with the suspend mode. the display turned off completly and was going back on when a call was incomming. (he sayed it wasen't so with the none suspend mode) the phone was running a bit over 12 hours. ...... but i think the real interesting things are already translated and posted to this list. so i don't know if it would be realy interresting for you to have a full translation of the reports. But you could ask einstein if he would post it also in english. :) .... oh wait, i try it : @Einstein : could you pleeeeeeeease post your reports also in english ? Bitte, bitte, bitte, bitte ....... and so on ...... [Platzhalter für alle guten Argumente, warum du das machen solltest. ... Bitte selber ausfüllen ... :) ] _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
0n Wed, May 28, 2008 at 12:49:02AM +0200, "Marco Trevisan (Trevi~no)" wrote:
>Marco Trevisan (Trevi~no) wrote:
>> Finally I've found something!
>>
>> Einstein from freeyourphone.de got a Freerunner and started a very good
>> report [1]
>
>Just to notify: Einstein has updated his post [1] with a battery test
>done using the mwester suspend-enabled kernel [2] and, if I've
>understood well (I don't speak German, if someone could help [also
>translating his reports]...), he got about 12hours of use.
>He doesn't specify what has done, but I figure a standard daily use...
Only if it was in English :(
-aW
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Hi, yesterday my Freerunner runs over 12hours. I charged it over night, 7hours without fast charge. Only GSM was on. Your're right with the daily use. i have a short call, become an sms, write one and at least two reboots. Also i waked up the device all 30 minutes to see the battery state. At the moment i have a second run, so i will top the 12 hours, i feel 14 ;) Today i become an call and after this, the freerunner don't go back to suspend. I reboot the device, after that, the suspend mode is working :/ Also i will test how long you can call with it... Greets Einstein _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I haven't got enough time today to translate every of his posts but I'll do it for the last one ;) Sorry for my quite "rusty" english, has already been some time that I've translated something ;) 27.05.2008 Hello alltogether, yesterday at night I flashed a new kernel image to the Freerunner, which should support some kind of suspend mode. Unfortunately it doesn't work with the ASU Image, so I had to put back the Openmoko Image I had before. It's looking good by now. Now 6,5 hours passed and the battery is showing halftime! I'm anxious to how long it will last in the end! Concerning the suspend mode, I'm not sure if the Freerunner will go into this mode, but the display is totally shut off. Before it has only been very dimmed, but at night you could see that it has been on. Also positive is, that at an incoming call the display lightens up and shows the dialer, so you won't miss the right button :) Okay, I've returned tonight 12 hours later and the Freerunner's battery wasn't fully drained yet. The battery indicator was very low but it was running. This gives more than 12 hours of lifetime. All this has been possible thanks to the kernel images from here: http://moko.mwester.net/ Though I think, that the CPU has not been clocked down and so on.. I'll try out another more detailed lifetime-test - something like constant telephony up the bitter end ;) cu, Georg -- _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
