In the future, if people can show preference for the non-Paypal
transaction methods when they donate, we would appreciate that over
Paypal.

Since the projects hackathons (and many other things) are very much
funded by donations, it is hard for us to fully dissasociate
completely from Paypal.  However we can ask and recommend that people
pass less money through them.

If you don't know why I am sending this mail.. you are reading US
managed news, and need to much much more informed....

Thanks.

[ message continues ]

Roger that; thanks for the info; I obviously need to stay more
informed (my mistake is not reading US news and believing it, but
rather mistrusting all news and getting none).

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org>

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It's in the US news.  Even the mainstream news on TV.  At least in Silicon
Valley. ;-)

Gotta love the cloud. . .

Sean

[ message continues ]

On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 4:25 AM, Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org>

Is there some preferred by devs like Google checkout or some non-US

[ message continues ]

>>>>> "Theo" == Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org> writes:

Theo> If you don't know why I am sending this mail.. you are reading US
Theo> managed news, and need to much much more informed....

If this is in reference to Wikileaks, it's because Paypal believes that
Wikileaks is involved in illegal activity, and to some degree, I agree
with them.  (I believe a lot of the "diplomatic actions" we do in the US
are wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right.)

Are you planning on having the OpenBSD development team perform some
sort of illegal activity soon?

If not, you shouldn't be worried about Paypal.

If it's not about Wikileaks, google searches don't show anything else
particularly interesting about Paypal recently, so I wonder what
triggered your message.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion

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Hi,

The problem is with your statement "PayPal believes".  PayPal is run by 
people.  Those people have made an arbitrary decision.  Sure, if the 
people that run WikiLeaks are CONVICTED of a crime, then, and only then 
they might be justified to pull WikiLeaks account.

The next time, what are the PayPal people going to arbitrarily decide is 
"wrong".  If some company actually used OpenBSD to make a baby mulching 
machine, would they cut off OpenBSD donations without anyone in OpenBSD 
being convicted of a crime?  Perhaps they would even confiscate the 
money in OpenBSD's PayPal account.

Per http://www.paypalsucks.com/,

"...but someone pays you with a stolen credit card, your account (by 
PayPal's own admission) is immediately flagged as being "criminal 
behavior" and any money in that account is confiscated."

PayPal does suck.  I've been forced to try to use it from South America 
(when I live in Canada), and it won't let you!  I had to take a bus for 
a day to get to the office to be able to hand them cash.

Cheers,
Steve

[ message continues ]

Assuming you're talking about PayPal freezing the WikeLeaks account,
Assange could only have been looking for publicity, as nobody but a total
idiot would use PayPal for such a political hot potato!

I agree totally that there are a lot of idiots running parts of the US
system, but at least they ARE predictable.

	Lee

[ message continues ]

You talk like Assange did something wrong. The right to free press is  
never wrong.

Theo asking donations are not given to a company that arbitrarily decide  
if/when they wish to pass that money on, whether driven by the wikileaks  
cause or not, is a sensible decision.

I would not wish my donation to a project "eated up" by politics along its  
way.

-- 
Robert Bronsdon

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Didn't say he did anything *wrong* - I said that he must have planned it
for publicity. I would not accuse him of the other possibility, being too
Have you ever tried to read the TOS? Any such organization with unlimited
legal resources can do whatever the wish - as long as it's not contrary to
Agree there - I'm not saying USE PayPal, just that he must have done it
for the publicity, as the other possibility does not say much for his
intelligence.

	Lee

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In a legal sense yes. In a business sense, hopefully not, if enough people take their money elsewhere. I terminated my PP account yesterday.

/Joakim

[ message continues ]

I find it interesting that many people apparently consider WikiLeaks to
have no legitimacy at all. Newspapers publish leaked documents all the
time (although usually not this many); in fact, a couple of newspapers
*did* publish stuff based on cables received prior to publication at
wikileaks.org.

I understand that self-censorship is common in the US at this point, but
it's rather strange that this is suddenly all about WikiLeaks -
traditionally, the employee leaking the documents would be in hot water,
if found, and the newspaper would be left alone. (Which is not entirely
unreasonable - the employee has a certain self-assumed duty to his/her
employer, which the newspaper doesn't share.)

I'm glad to see Theo standing up for his principles (again).

		Joachim

P.S. Despite the above support, I think some measure of secrecy and
power politics is probably, sadly, necessary for a better world -
"freedom is a well-armed sheep".

-- 
TFMotD: setpgid, setpgrp (2) - set process group
http://www.joachimschipper.nl/

[ message continues ]

http://sowhyiswikileaksagoodthingagain.com/

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I'm very glad to see the OpenBSD project take this position. In fact, I
think I'll have to make a donation just because of this.

[ message continues ]

Better add Visa to the list as well

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/12/07/wikileaks_17/

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org>

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yep....

| MasterCard and Visa have cut off support for
| WikiLeaks. They claimed WikiLeaks breaches its
| rules, but you can still use those cards to
| support overtly racist orgainsations supported by
| the Ku Klux Klan.

source:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/dec/07/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-l

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And Swiss banks and Swedish women. :-)

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Which sucks because I was ver pro-sweedish women! Damn it all to hell...

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