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I've been using an IBM Thinkpad T22 (P3 900MHz) laptop for quite some time and I want to upgrade. I am looking for some expert advice on what to upgrade to in the Thinkpad T-Series. Two main considerations: 1. Core Duo 32-bit (T60) or Core 2 Duo 64-bit (T61)? I've only used i386, should I think about amd64? 2. I would like graphics hardware acceleration. I know I need to stay away from nVidia. The T60 comes with ATI Radeon and the T61 is the integrated Intel 965GM. Is there anything else I need to be concerned with regarding OpenBSD on the T-Series? What would you guys choose and why? Thanks, Clint
This is probably obvious and it doesn't address your "main considerations," but wifi card support may be an issue. I have an atheros card in my T400 that is not yet supported (although, there has been some chatter on this list about someone working on it).
I'm not too concerned about wifi as this thing will mostly be plugged into a docking station. If I have to, I'll just stick a ral or ath pccard in it.
Are you sure about that? I didn't think they made any T60s with plain Core chips, though I could be wrong. My T60 has a Core 2, anyway. Regardless of whether you want 64-bit or not, the Core 2 performance is considerably better.
Actually, the T60 comes with 32-bit (T2xxx) or 64-bit (T[57]xxx) processors: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-62487 Core Duo T2500 processor: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27236 I've seen T60 with Core or Core 2 selling here locally on craigslist. I figured, if I go with a 64-bit Core 2, I would just opt for the T61 with the slightly faster bus and supposedly lower acoustics. Plus they are selling for the same price.
Dmesg from my T60 (T7200) below.
No big issues, but the fan is in fact a bit loud on OpenBSD, even when
running apmd -C. It could even suspend and resume correctly recently,
then stopped working but I don't mind since I don't use s/r.
Not all T60 are born equal though, so be sure to check the specs for
your particular model (this is a 2007E79).
I picked this up because of the nice size (14 in screen) and good
resolution (1440x900). It has an ATI x1400, so you get accelerated X.
Intel 82573L gigabit ethernet (em) and Intel 802.11g (wpi) work just
fine.
Unfortunately the chipset is limited to 3GB RAM. I have not tested
bluetooth nor the modem.The fingerprint reader does not attach to any
driver.
After 4 years it is still doing its job, so I can recommend it.
OpenBSD 4.8-current (GENERIC.MP) #591: Tue Oct 19 11:45:02 MDT 2010
deraadt@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP
real mem = 3218931712 (3069MB)
avail mem = 3119386624 (2974MB)
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (68 entries)
bios0: vendor LENOVO version "79ETE6WW (2.26 )" date 04/01/2010
bios0: LENOVO 2007E79
acpi0 at bios0: rev 2
acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5
acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SSDT ECDT TCPA APIC MCFG HPET SLIC BOOT SSDT
SSDT SSDT SSDT
acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S3) SLPB(S3) LURT(S3) DURT(S3) EXP0(S4)
EXP1(S4) EXP2(S4) EXP3(S4) PCI1(S4) USB0(S3) USB1(S3) USB2(S3) USB7(S3)
HDEF(S4)
acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits
acpiec0 at acpi0
acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee00000: PC-AT compat
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz, 1995.31 MHz
cpu0:
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,NXE,LONG
cpu0: 4MB 64b/line 16-way L2 cache
cpu0: apic clock running at 166MHz
cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor)
cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz, 1995.00 ...the T61 is completely silent btw, and suspend & resume work just fine.
the wpi is crap (if anyone wants to do me a favor: send me something
that works reliably. the wpi in the X61s is the same shit, btw). loses
connectivity regularily and needs an down & up dance.
OpenBSD 4.8-current (GENERIC.MP) #9: Mon Oct 18 14:52:06 CEST 2010
henning@rekkon.bsws.de:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP
cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7500 @ 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM
real mem = 3194245120 (3046MB)
avail mem = 3131973632 (2986MB)
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 05/11/09, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfdc60, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (73 entries)
bios0: vendor LENOVO version "7LETC6WW (2.26 )" date 05/11/2009
bios0: LENOVO 8896W58
acpi0 at bios0: rev 2
acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5
acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SSDT ECDT TCPA APIC MCFG HPET SLIC BOOT ASF! SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT
acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S3) SLPB(S3) LURT(S3) DURT(S3) IGBE(S4) EXP0(S4) EXP1(S4) EXP2(S4) EXP3(S4) EXP4(S4) PCI1(S4) USB0(S3) USB1(S3) USB2(S3) USB3(S3) USB4(S3) EHC0(S3) EHC1(S3) HDEF(S4)
acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits
acpiec0 at acpi0
acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee00000: PC-AT compat
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
cpu0: apic clock running at 199MHz
cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor)
cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7500 @ 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM
ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 1 pa 0xfec00000, version 20, 24 pins
ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 2, remapped to apid 1
acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz
acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0)
acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus -1 (AGP_)
acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus ...That used to be the case, but with current lately my wpi is not losing connectivity anymore. ciao Luca
you have 3 free guesses on what i run -- Henning Brauer, hb@bsws.de, henning@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting
Probably -current and wpi. What I still get are occasional kernel asserts at boot at wpi firmware load and I have to rerun sh /etc/netstart wpi0 to make it work. ciao Luca
Does this mean you don't get hardware graphics acceleration?
that is pretty clear, isn't it? -- Henning Brauer, hb@bsws.de, henning@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting
Well, I have this on a Dell Precision 220 and graphics acceleration doesn't work in X. pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 vendor "Intel", unknown product 0x2500 rev 0x03 agp at pchb0 not configured radeondrm0 at vga1: apic 2 int 16 (irq 9) drm0 at radeondrm0 I figured if there is a "not configured" or "unknown product" associated with anything in the graphics subsystem, then you don't get graphics acceleration or hardware support in general. Hence the: "Intel GM965 Video" rev 0x0c at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured What's "not configured" here?
I have no idea :) -- Henning Brauer, hb@bsws.de, henning@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting
That's what I thought, but xdriinfo says otherwise and glxgears sucks (33fps). No hints in Xorg.0.log either. Permissions on /dev/drm0 are correct. Anyway, not a big deal on the Dell workstation. I'm just hoping my Thinkpad T61 has acceleration. I'll find out in a few days I guess.
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:17:35 +0200 Does it have tv or vga out?
It means you get hardware acceleration :) Intel video driver is probably the best supported on X.
Was using T61s and worked like a charm
T61. why? LVDS connected 1400x1050+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 287mm x 215mm these are a bit hard to find tho. but I really don't see the point in an XGA 14" display (XGA is for 12" :)), and I hate all that widescreen shit. 14.1" 1400x1050 is awesome. -- Henning Brauer, hb@bsws.de, henning@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 14:56:26 +0200 Hear, Hear. I'm not alone in the quest that gets harder every day. I've seen a "revolutionary" panasonic tv advert recently that reckons they're tv is "cinema proportion" at 21:9. Rediculous, I've never seen a cinema that shape and wouldn't go if there was one. The local 3d Imax is almost square and it's much better!!. I'm not sure if the problem is those stupid bullshit papers with the "finger test" that reckon your eyes work in widescreen, EVEN THOUGH THE PUPILS ARE ROUND AND FOCUS ON A SINGLE POINT or film makers wanting people to have a worse experience at home and so pay to go to the cinema, what are those black lines on dvds for anyway????. IMHO, if it wasn't a challenge or more expensive to make screens round then they would have stayed that way and then we wouldn't have all this rubbish. Kc
That "almost square" screen has an aspect ratio of 1.44:1. Please don't try to view 2001 on such a screen. :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Filmaspectratios_svg.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio_(image)#Previous_and_presently_used_aspect_ratios Best Martin
Just a small hint.... after the 60 series all thinkpads rock... but I wouldn't go to T series unless you'll be moving quite seldom. My advice is a whooping X61, ultraportable yet powerful and really silent.
the 4:3 14" T61 is still pretty portable IMHO. the widescreen 15.4" not at all good for that. haven't had my fingers on the other models, would expect the widescreen 14.1" one to be acceptable still and the other 15" one not. but indeed - I travel with a X61s (and another X40 if I take two). -- Henning Brauer, hb@bsws.de, henning@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting
I thought about the X61. However, my laptop will rarely leave my desk and will spend much of it's life in a docking station. If I really need portability (flying, camping) and I'm just going to be writing code in vim, then I use my trusty Sony Vaio SR17, weighing in at less than 3 pounds (~1.3KG). I paid about 2400USD for it new in 2000; works like a charm. I'm still getting my moneys worth out of it. :-)
Just like my dell latitude L400...... ;))))) ...too bad it sports an awful power connector and its battery is dead ...but actually I emptied the battery, so that it's also way lighter ;))) ...and with a new 80G hd ;)))) Then, T61 is perfect for you :)
Damn David, you're good! I was actually wondering if anyone would catch that. There is a simple explanation. The 2400USD Sony Vaio was the first brand new computer I ever bought back in 2000 (before that, my parents bought my computers). It seemed like such a waste when only after a year or so it depreciated greatly. About that time, I started running FreeBSD and OpenBSD and realized that these OSes worked like a charm on older hardware. It was from that point on that I decided I would not waste my money on new computer hardware. Circa 2002 was also the last time I ran Windows as well. So there you go, contradiction explained. ;-)
Ok (?) . . . so, explained why you lied ;-)
It's a good step up from my T22, which I've been using for about 5 years. I've always been happy with Thinkpads. I got the T22 when it was about 3 years old for about 250USD. Now I'm back in the market because the T22 is getting a little slow. The T6[01] are in the 250USD range and are about 3 years old now, so it's perfect for me running OpenBSD. I I love all the wide screen shit! I decided to buy a T61 with Intel graphics GM965. It has the 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050). I also got the docking station with a DVI out. I'm not sure if it will run my 24" WUXGA monitor at it's native 1920x1200 resolution though.
Any interesting reason you run i386 on 64-bit hardware? Stability? Performance?
I don't have any amd64 laptop, but one annoying thing I noticed would be the register dump in ddb won't fit the 80x25 screen :-) People say that you'll notice the difference only with lots of multimedia and heavy optimized computing. Or a habit is just a second nature... -- Martin Pelikan
