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What makes OpenBSD unique? Everyone's got their own list, but here's mine: * Good work is unacceptable, great work is expected. * Quality is the #1 goal, it takes a back seat to NOTHING else. * Freedom for the users to use OpenBSD without question and without lawyers having to be involved, again without compromise. * Strong leadership. Not a "core team", or an elected committee that blows in the wind of public opinion, but one person who sets direction and policy for the project. You may not always agree with Theo, but you never wonder where he stands on an issue, or what direction the project will go. * Commitment to doing it right in one way, not twenty different ways ("pick one, maybe you get lucky"). * Refusal to accept the damned "all programs have bugs" chant as an excuse for making crap * No fear of retaining things that work, and trashing things that are broke or inferior to newer (or older!) alternatives. * The "Just Works" philosophy. But...a project like OpenBSD doesn't just run on volunteer effort, it takes real money. Hardware, infrastructure, Internet services, and if you are going to have ONE PERSON in charge, you need to keep them focused on the project, not "in their spare time", and give them the money to live in reasonable comfort. I just had a talk with Theo, and he shared some numbers with me. There's a digit missing from the current CD pre-orders from where we were hoping to be now. There's a trailing zero missing from what we'd really like to have. Long ago, while waiting for customers to hand me money, my first boss told me, "The hardest thing to do, but the most important, is to ask for the sale". I've never been very good at that, but here it is... People, it is time to get your browsers over to http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html and start running some money into the project. Do you use OpenBSD for fun? Contribute. Do you use OpenBSD for work? Contribute. Does OpenBSD allow you to worry about the problem you ...
Thank you Nick, very well said! And thank you Theo and team for doing what you do. 4.6 CD ordered! -Sam
Of course I try to be first to pre-order my CD setS but the orders always open when I'm asleep. I am going to keep trying, even after I achieve it! Good pitch, Nick. I'd love to see it on a wider screen somewhere. Rod/ *** NOTE *** Please DO NOT CC me. I <am> subscribed to the list. Mail to the sender address that does not originate at the list server is tarpitted. The reply-to: address is provided for those who feel compelled to reply off list. Thankyou. Rod/ --- This life is not the real thing. It is not even in Beta. If it was, then OpenBSD would already have a man page for it.
I'd be happy to preorder a CD, I just need to have the money to pay for one, and I'm behind on bills... tarpitted. The reply-to: address is provided for those who feel compelled to -- Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict - Oh, why does everything I whip leave me?
I'm in the same boat. This year has been brutally tough for my business. I simply cannot afford a CD. However, I simply cannot do without OpenBSD. So I will mention that other useful page: http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html They now accept direct donations in a variety of ways. I just signed up for a $5 USD a month subscription using PayPal. I suggest that anyone seeing hard times consider donating a small amount. After PayPal fees, a hundred $1 donations is still around $72 extra for OpenBSD. Anyone who has counted change to buy food knows that even a few extra bucks can make your day a whole lot better!
It might be worthwhile to investigate additional payment services, the fees or international presence might be more favorable than PP and thus might enhance donation activity. Regards -Lars
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Chris Bennett I was unaware of that. That's a nice feature. I don't have a PayPal account (don't trust them) but I'd like to do something similar with my credit card. Will we be able to use a CC to make recurring monthly contributions someday? Thanks, Brad
I move money from my account into paypal, with the intention of those money may disappear from the face of the earth, then make PP donations using those. No ties to any account or CC for me, so I dont risk anything except what I give to PP in the first place.
That's funny that you trust PayPal to wire money from your account, but not with your credit card number, considering that banks often give you a very short period of time (24 hours?) to contest electronic bank transfers, but 90+ days to contest credit card transfers. -- The past cannot be changed. The future cannot be guaranteed.
On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 05:33 -0500, "Chris Bennett" This is wonderful and I am sure direct donations are much appreciated, but.... Buy the CD's people. The best way to support the project is to support Theo. Nothing supports Theo more than CD sales. The surest way to maximize the money that actually goes to OpenBSD is to buy the CD's. Instead of a monthly donation you could put aside $10 a month in a savings account and buy the CD set twice a year. No PayPal. No credit card. Just your bank account. If you *really* want to help OBSD buy the CD's. (plus you get all the neat stickers)
Hi Nick, Great post! As to have this on a bigger screen! It has! (;> April 21, 2009 at Apple Store in Tysons Virginia! For the Apple Night School event. All night long from 5PM to ~10PM or so on it's own table and also bigger screen too. The idea is what kids are doing with their computers and all as well as what they do with their MAC computers. Well, this is not news to some on this list here, but my son did promote OpenBSD as well as I in a big way and a unique way too. You can check the following pictures below if you want proof. 9 of them all around 3.5 to 4Mb sorry about that. Specially you can notice the last 4 pictures and the last one with the big screen on it. That's in the Apple store for presentations. Puffy did show up that night big time and a few Genius sure asked a few very interesting questions about the setup and all to witch my son provided all the answers they wanted. Only one said that the warranty was not valid on the MAC laptop anymore as it was temper with for dual boot and all to witch my son proudly answer that's it's been like that for a very long time and to make the Genius happy also said something in the lines of "That's no problem is it? If Apple makes good hardware, I don't really need that Apple Care and all to run great software on it do I? Are you saying that Apple do not make good hardware and I should pick a different company then?" To witch the Genius didn't have any answer and left it alone and the other Genius got a good smile out of. (;> Anyway, my son is a freak of Lego's and OpenBSD and that night show up how to use BlockSmith on him workstation in dualboot and how to use OpenBSD to secure his MAC right there in the Apple store on bigger screen then his laptop! (;> He even did a Lego figure of one of the Genius right there in BlockSmith witch I can tell you got him the hart of the various Genius there in the store too. (;> I guess I call that Puffy ...
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Nick Holland all good stuff, yeah. just one question - how do we determine this "one right way"? (like there I have a few questions about the stores in Australia (since we're on the topic here). (http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html#au/lsl) LSL doesn't seem to be doing pre-orders (see http://www.lsl.com.au/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=openbsd&x=0&y=0); does anybody know about the status of ESI? I cannot find any mention of OpenBSD, let alone any pre-orders on their site (http://www.esi.com.au/). If anybody living in Australia could help out to call the store/s (I dont live there - it's just that this is the nearest store to me) and enquire, that would be great. thanks, -jf
Having spoken to some OpenBSD users in Australia it appears as if your best bet is to order directly from https://https.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/order That way you can make a per-order as well. Regards Johan M:son
Not quite Australia but I've ordered 3.5 onwards from the Computer Shop of Calgary and my orders have always arrived in New Zealand in good time (and well before release if I get my order in on time - pre-ordering is definitely worth it.) The CD jewel cases used to be - without fail - broken, but NO issues since 4.0 and the DVD cases. And back to Nick's original email, I'll badger a few people ... HTH.
First of all, it isn't "we" who determine the "one right way", it is the developers, and if there is a conflict, it's Theo. (and yes, internal conflicts take place, and if you think the "abuse" on the lists is vicious, you don't want to see some of the internal disputes!) it's a lot simpler than it might seem. The process varies, but usually starts by someone writing code (and man pages). If the code is good, it is improved, if it sucks but solves a problem, it may inspire someone else to write good code. "Talking about the idea" is not part of the OpenBSD development process. But often in life as in OpenBSD, the key to making a good decision is simply MAKING A DECISION, then you worry about making it the RIGHT decision. This is a problem you can see in almost any committee designed system, compromise takes place to try to keep everyone happy-ish, but no one is completely happy, and the result is usually far from ideal. "A" could work, "B" could work, "A+B" and "neither" suck. Most committees end up going for the "A+B" or "neither" option for fear of pissing off the A or B camps. Simply making a hard decision quickly and focusing all efforts behind that decision produces better results than compromises that split development efforts and drag out problems produces better results. Nick.
Done. +1 ;) -- Thanks, Jordi Espasa Clofent
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Jordi Espasa Clofent < +2 from Euskadi and Catalunya, Spain, so to speak :)
+1 from the Southern Pampas, Rio Grande Do Sul, Brazil. -- Christiano Farina HAESBAERT Do NOT send me html mail.
Looks pretty good to me (list and following points), .. I missed the 'early order' - ours will be in shortly. Keep up the good work all! Lee ============================================== Leland V. Lammert lvl@omnitec.net Chief Scientist Omnitec Corporation Network/Internet Consultants www.omnitec.net ==============================================
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Nick Holland<nick@holland-consulting.net> Apologies for procrastination and thanks for the timely reminder. Order placed. Gerald.
I would like to buy CDs, but in Brazil these kind of products have a high tax fee applied when they hit the harbour. For a $50 CD, I'll probably pay almost $almost $70 to someone I don't want to "contribute". This doesn't include the shipment cost (~$30 I suspect). I don't have a Paypal account (yet). If it's worth to trust him, I don't know, but I much prefer to donate $50 (although they will deduct 3.9% in my case, but at least OpenBSD doesn't have the CD cost) than to pay almost the triple to government, shipment, etc. Don't care if I don't get the CDs. Is it possible to OpenBSD to make profit for the project selling books or manuals? I don't know the costs or if it's worth (like CDs are better for the project than T-shirts, mugs, etc.). It's tax free here, and I think: if it's free here, maybe it's somewhere else. Teers, -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni Perhaps you could make a donation and download the files? You get what you desire and you support the project. It wouldn't be as complete as the CDs, but you still get to contribute without paying huge taxes. I'm assuming your download rates/limits are reasonable, of course. -- Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict - Oh, why does everything I whip leave me?
Yes, that's the point. Teers, -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \
I have the same concerns as well (i mean the shipping. F, i'll support the project - but not the shipping?). I did get the disc set, though, but.. it would be nice to be able to "check out" knowing how much i'm supposed to be paying for shipping. -jf -- In the meantime, here is your PSA: "It's so hard to write a graphics driver that open-sourcing it would not help." -- Andrew Fear, Software Product Manager, NVIDIA Corporation http://kerneltrap.org/node/7228
Books and manuals are more like t-shirts and mugs than CDs -- relatively high cost, relatively bulky, more variety to inventory. They also have an added problem of being in a competitive market -- if you want an OpenBSD t-shirt, you will be buying it from OpenBSD. If you want a book that covers OpenBSD, you can buy it from OpenBSD, or you can buy it at the corner book store and have it tonight, or at BigOnlineBookStore for a substantial discount off list price and special deals with the shipping companies. I'm not sure what the margin on books is, but if you try to price against Don't get me wrong, pure cash donations work nicely to keep the lights on. Well...briefly. Based on some numbers Theo showed me after my earlier note, cash donations from the US and Europe are..uhmm... how do I put this...PATHETIC! We are talking the equiv. of less than 10 CDs each. Canadians are doing a lot better, relatively speaking, but as of Sept 8 (BEFORE I posted my note) all cash donations barely put a dent in the cost of a mini-hackathon. Theo tells me you guys have responded to my note, and thanks to those that did! but there's still a lot of financial slacking goin' on... Nick.
The previous message was not from Nick! It was from me and intended for Nick. I simply overwrote the wrong address field. Sorry for the noise. jim