Hello chaps :)

I just saw this on the net about a new OS from M$ called Singularity.  What
do you think of it thus far?

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/174267/microsoft-releases-robust-new-operating-system.html

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<DELURK>

"The OS is coded in an extension of C# - rather than more simple C or
C++ - to avoid the flaws of today's operating systems, such as their
susceptibility to buffer overruns from worms or viruses."

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

I needed that laugh.

<LURK>


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The OS is written in Managed code and designed by managers :)



-- 
http://www.vikaskumar.org/

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I wonder if anyone actually took a look to the code before opening
his/her mouth.

Note that I don't trust Microsoft either, but giving that Singularity
is not planned to be a successor to Windows, but a research
experiment, makes me think it _can_ be good.

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And what does this crap have to do with OpenBSD?

Ah, yesss, it's TROLL NOISE.

Rod/

"Write a wise saying and your name will live on forever."  - Anonymous

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Having a kernel with managed code is not necessarily idiotic (although
I think in most cases smart pointers do the job better).

However having chosen C# is in my opinion not optimal. C# is very
limited when it comes to generic and meta-programming.

I think "modern-styled" C++ (ie template intensive) and a functional
oriented language would have been a better choice for a secure OS
built from the ground up.

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Have you ever been involved in OS design and implementation?  And I do
not mean academic exercises, but a real world project producing actual
working stuff. 

	-Otto

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I don't think it is relevant or even polite to question one's
abilities when discussing technical matters.


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Point is that C++ is retarded.


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You state an opinion without backing it up by referring to either
existing projects or by personal experience. 

I do not know any succesful project using "template style C++" and
functional languges for OS development, so I'm asking if you have any
experience using these for OS develpment.


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I have studied it and used it on many projects.  I never got used to
dealing with its inherent flaws.  It is a language that always has a

If it doesn't have buffer overflows it means you did a good job writing
your code.  C++ doesn't get any cookies.

Are you sure that all the garbage you linked against also doesn't have


What you really are saying is that magic happens behind the scenes.  If
you are ok with trusting the compiler to do all that stuff right then I
guess that would be a good thing.  Considering the quality of gcc I'll

I call malarkey on all this.

I have to this day see C++ re-use.  Honestly the only useful application
I have ever seen for C++ is to encapsulate windows calls.  Borland did
an amazing job with RTL.  I would never ever even dare to think about
using any of that stuff in kernel code though.

The other things you mentioned are straight from the marketing

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Are you sure you used the STL?

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/driver/kernel/KMcode.mspx

Read the section about "Libraries":

"Although much of the Standard Template Library is implemented as source
code in headers, it occasionally uses library functions or other
features that are not available or usable in the kernel environment."

I'm guessing you must have had to do some serious mangling of the STL in
order to shoehorn it into your driver. Sounds like far more trouble than
it's worth.

-ml

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The comment from Microsoft is correct. Basically you need to remove
exceptions support and write custom allocators. I have been
unsucessful with the Microsoft STL, I therefore used STLPort. The
problem with the provided STL headers is that there is a #define
nightmare for C++/CLI compatibility.

I think we are drafting toward OT...

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http://www.jnode.org/ has been around for a while

and if you search sf.net for "+java +operating +system"
http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=%2Bjava+%2Bos&type_of_search=soft&pmode=0...

you get 86 results.

So the C# version was bound to follow. And as far as I can remember
there is an open source effort to write a c#, can't remember the name
though.

Cheers Didi


----
www.cern.ch/ribalba  /  www.ribalba.de
Email / Jabber: ribalba@gmail.com
Phone (Work) : +41 22 7679376
Skype : ribalba
Address : CERN / IT-FIO-FS / GENEVE 23/ SCHWEIZ

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Love the marketing lingo "managed code".  I am sure we can move some


I don't think I could come up with a more awkward language than C++.  It
is too generic where it should be specific and too specific where it
should be generic.  I marvel at how bad the language is designed and by
the sheer fact that it has ++ in it that made the marketing departments
go wild.

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Perhaps we should review the Ada thread from a while back.  

Doug.

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> What's next? an OS in java and php?


There's been a Java OS in development for a while.

http://www.jnode.org/


Erik

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Can't wait to see it's incredible success at being an OS.

Ever wondered why your cell phone OS sucks?


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Are you living in 2001?  It should be in Ruby on Rails.

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On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Steve Shockley <steve.shockley@shockley.net>


No, the OS should be written in silverlight.



-- 
http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
"This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity."  --
Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
"Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory
where smoking on the job is permitted."  -- Gene Spafford
learn french:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related

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There  is a kernel being written in Lisp called Movitz (
http://common-lisp.net/project/movitz/)  and there was one in Python as well
that I saw a few years ago but I forget the name (it started with U...)

-- 
http://www.vikaskumar.org/

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Unununium.org

-- 
Jonathan

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Marco, it would be better for you if you make informed comments rather
than just resorting to sarcasm the moment you get a chance.
Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaOS

~Mayuresh

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"Sun now officially considers JavaOS a legacy system
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_system> and recommends migration to
Java ME <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_ME> ^[1]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaOS#_note-0> . This by itself however
is not a full replacement, as Java ME is an API
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/API> specification, which runs on top of
an operating system, and is not an operating system in itself."

I may be mistaken but if they relegate this to the rank of a "legacy
system" instead of improving it and giving more credit to their
language, it must mean something about the use of their language to
design a system.

Gilles

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They relegated it to "legacy system" status because there wasn't a
market for it.
Java ME targets the embedded systems market and does it quite well.
Embedded systems developers typically have used a fixed set of OSes,
Sun considered it not worthwhile to introduce one more standard, and
instead focused on delivering a platform for application development.

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Thank God someone is writing an OS with dependability and security in mind.

Erik


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