Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words

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To: David H. Lynch Jr. <dhlii@...>
Cc: <misc@...>
Date: Friday, September 14, 2007 - 6:06 pm

On 9/14/07, David H. Lynch Jr. wrote:

I never mentioned "total freedom"; I don't think it could be achieved,
and I didn't mean to imply that it is desirable.

What I wrote above was meant to call attention to the fact that there
are different kinds of freedom motivated by different ethical
principles or political agendas, and that claiming that the less
restrictive BSD license is "a social failure that the GPL aims to end"
is a call for heavier coercion machinery. Is this really going to end
a "social failure"?

> By adopting a copyright and a license BSD has rejected anarchy and

Yes, I understand.

> The BSD License defines obeying copyright law, complying with the

I support this entirely.

> Failing to preserve a copyright/license/credit is a BSD example of a

Again, agreed.

> The only distinction between a BSD License and the GPL is the

The point I wanted to make (but apparently failed) is that the GPL
seems to encourage a more authoritarian and fanatical mindset than the
BSD licenses, for which mutual decent regard would seem to suffice in
most cases (perhaps I am a naive here), and which rewards developers
by ensuring that they get due credit for their work.

> If you are really claiming that BSD Licenses offer "total freedom",

I am not, and there is a world between "total freedom" and armies of
lawyers serving hidden agendas.

The BSD licenses explicitly state which rights are granted and under
what conditions, in a clear and concise way. It can not possibly be
understood as "totally free", and I am as shocked as you are that some
people think that they are entitled to take the rights granted by a
license while disregarding the conditions imposed by the author(s).

> make's no distinctions between the values of different freedoms,

I feel that the anger is entirely justified; I am sorry that my
message was so unclear that it could be understood as meaning totally
the opposite of what I meant to communicate.

My sole grief against the GPL is its vulnerability to manipulation of
well-meaning developers.

> You can not have total freedom absent coercion, and copyright's and

Agreed. You can have a license that is short enough and clear enough
that lawyers don't need to get involved at every step, that relies
more on mutual respect than on coercion, and that gives users as much
freedom as is fair for the author(s). I find that the BSD licenses
achieve this, and this is part of why I switched to OpenBSD. The
unequaled quality of the code and documentation was another strong
motivation, and I expect to contribute code in the near future.

--
Sebastien

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Messages in current thread:
The Atheros story in much fewer words, Theo de Raadt, (Wed Sep 12, 10:57 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, steve szmidt, (Thu Sep 13, 4:07 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Claudio Jeker, (Thu Sep 13, 4:26 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words , Theo de Raadt, (Thu Sep 13, 4:19 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, steve szmidt, (Thu Sep 13, 6:27 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Daniel Ouellet, (Thu Sep 13, 5:33 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Craig Skinner, (Fri Sep 14, 4:05 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Bob Beck, (Fri Sep 14, 10:14 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Bob Beck, (Fri Sep 14, 10:26 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Nick Holland, (Thu Sep 13, 7:09 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Shawn K. Quinn, (Thu Sep 13, 3:08 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Nick Holland, (Fri Sep 14, 12:30 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Shawn K. Quinn, (Sat Sep 15, 2:25 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Siju George, (Fri Sep 14, 9:25 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Craig Skinner, (Fri Sep 14, 4:05 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Jeremy C. Reed, (Thu Sep 13, 5:41 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, bofh, (Thu Sep 13, 6:14 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Paul de Weerd, (Thu Sep 13, 4:15 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Thu Sep 13, 5:25 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Paul de Weerd, (Fri Sep 14, 2:12 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Fri Sep 14, 3:42 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Paul de Weerd, (Fri Sep 14, 5:49 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Fri Sep 14, 6:13 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Greg Thomas, (Fri Sep 14, 1:09 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sat Sep 15, 7:30 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Sebastien Carlier, (Fri Sep 14, 7:39 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Shawn K. Quinn, (Sat Sep 15, 2:02 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Fri Sep 14, 7:24 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Siegbert Marschall, (Wed Sep 26, 8:32 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Gilles Chehade, (Wed Sep 26, 2:42 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Paul de Weerd, (Fri Sep 14, 8:29 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Richard Stallman, (Fri Sep 14, 10:09 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Siju George, (Mon Sep 17, 7:48 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Richard Stallman, (Mon Sep 17, 6:24 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Jack J. Woehr, (Mon Sep 17, 6:46 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Marco Peereboom, (Sat Sep 15, 1:40 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, David H. Lynch Jr., (Fri Sep 14, 4:32 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Jeroen Massar, (Fri Sep 14, 8:21 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Fri Sep 14, 11:06 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, J.C. Roberts, (Fri Sep 14, 6:25 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sat Sep 15, 7:33 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, J.C. Roberts, (Sat Sep 15, 9:34 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sun Sep 16, 7:56 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Marc Espie, (Sat Sep 15, 9:53 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sat Sep 15, 12:59 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Tony Abernethy, (Sat Sep 15, 1:49 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Tony Abernethy, (Sat Sep 15, 8:11 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sat Sep 15, 9:40 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Jeroen Massar, (Sat Sep 15, 7:58 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sat Sep 15, 9:43 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Tony Abernethy, (Sat Sep 15, 10:10 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Damien Miller, (Sat Sep 15, 7:54 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sat Sep 15, 9:45 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Damien Miller, (Sat Sep 15, 6:19 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, William Boshuck, (Sat Sep 15, 7:34 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sun Sep 16, 7:29 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Tony Abernethy, (Sat Sep 15, 8:25 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sat Sep 15, 9:48 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Tony Abernethy, (Sat Sep 15, 10:13 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sat Sep 15, 12:56 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Marco Peereboom, (Sat Sep 15, 1:45 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Daniel Ouellet, (Fri Sep 14, 5:29 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Sat Sep 15, 7:36 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Greg Thomas, (Fri Sep 14, 1:18 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Paul de Weerd, (Fri Sep 14, 11:55 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Jack J. Woehr, (Fri Sep 14, 11:19 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Sebastien Carlier, (Fri Sep 14, 8:50 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, David H. Lynch Jr., (Fri Sep 14, 4:55 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Sebastien Carlier, (Fri Sep 14, 6:06 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Fri Sep 14, 10:58 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Tony Abernethy, (Fri Sep 14, 7:52 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Tony Abernethy, (Fri Sep 14, 6:31 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Jeroen Massar, (Fri Sep 14, 6:27 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Fri Sep 14, 7:51 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Tony Abernethy, (Fri Sep 14, 8:03 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Reiner Jung, (Thu Sep 13, 6:50 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Thu Sep 13, 6:58 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Marco Peereboom, (Thu Sep 13, 7:28 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Fri Sep 14, 3:46 am)
Re: The Atheros story ... Rui trolling again., Siegbert Marschall, (Wed Sep 26, 8:22 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Reiner Jung, (Thu Sep 13, 7:29 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Fri Sep 14, 3:44 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Darren Spruell, (Thu Sep 13, 3:32 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Shawn K. Quinn, (Thu Sep 13, 3:37 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words , Theo de Raadt, (Thu Sep 13, 3:57 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Marco Peereboom, (Thu Sep 13, 8:48 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, J.C. Roberts, (Fri Sep 14, 5:11 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Marc Espie, (Fri Sep 14, 4:46 am)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Claudio Jeker, (Thu Sep 13, 12:21 pm)
Re: The Atheros story in much fewer words, Darren Spruell, (Thu Sep 13, 1:16 pm)