Adam wrote:

quoted text
> Daniel Ouellet  wrote:

>

>> Time have show my over and over that candidate that need to justify what

>> they know by papers are not the one that get the job done when you are

>> in crisis and as such, that become my quick filter before the interview

>> as to who not to invite.

>

> That's just as stupid as requiring people have a cert.  Lots of people have

> certs because so many places toss your resume if you don't have "MCSE" or

> "CCNA" listed on it.  Just because they have a cert doesn't mean they don't

> know what they're doing.

No it does not. The difference is the one that got the CERT because it

was required, simply doesn't spend all their times flashing it left and

right and signing all their emails with the full lists of them to show

it off. Admin that know their stuff don't need CERT to justify what they

know, it's just the start of knowing what to do. It's not a mean to the

end if you want. I saw many that express clearly that they don't need to

learn more as they go their CERT and they will tell you that they need

to renew it every few years and that's how they stay on top.
I would tell you that proper Admin don't use their CERT to polish their

resume, but will show what they can do and what they know without them

and will simply add them as an add on in annex to their CV.
>> Not to bust your bubble, but really, that's what I do and I never

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>> regretted it yet once! The best candidate are always the one that can

>> explain it without fuss, show you by example and just get it done

>> without the needs to put themselves on a pedestal!

>

> Getting a cert isn't putting themselves on a pedestal, its filling a stupid

> requirement for alot of jobs.  How are people supposed to guess wether or

> not to list their certs when applying for any given job to get past the

> mindless resume filtering dummies?

I agree with your statement for some job requiring this, I would simply

say that way to many thinks that having the CERT is all that is required

and it's not. I guess you know that you can try to pass your MCSE every

month and always get the same tests, so failing multiple times until

pass, doesn't mean the person gets it. Granted, not everyone is like

that, but the real difference is the one that gets the CERT because they

have to, and the one that gets it because they think it's the best thing

after the slice bread and that having it will not required them to learn

anything else.
It come down to, where do you put your CERT in your CV, on top, or in annex?
The Admin that really know their stuff, will put them just as an other

stone in their knowledge, but sadly most will put it on top and as first

to justify they are good and know what you need and these same one will

also put in to all their emails, business cards, walls, where ever.
I didn't mean to insult you or anything, if I did, then my apology to

you, I simply stated a real fact of life in ways that sadly to many use

their CERT in the wrong way.
It's just like graduating from  engineering school. Most graduate think

they know all there is to know and now they can do any jobs, I say and

proved that many times over in my own life, that when you graduate, even

with honor, just know just to well how to start learning now and you

will do for the rest of your life. If that same person don't like that,

then he/she sure pick the wrong field!
Hope that clarify my previous statement.
Best,
Daniel