On Saturday 07 April 2007 12:32:36 pm Will Maier wrote:
I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it an entire migration.
Nor a "linux shop". There are also freebsd, solaris, windoze <gasp>, and mac
boxes in the mix.
In this particular case we're just talking about one server for one portion of
the website. It originally ran on solaris in the late 90s. It was moved to
linux around '98 and the last major "upgrade" was 2001/2.
This is a decentralized collaborative non-hierarchal group of volunteers
around the world using whatever resources are at hand using operating systems
from all over. So the skill set and resources can change significantly. Are
you suggesting that openbsd just too obscure for us to consider using it?
We hope that openbsd is the right tool for the following:
1. maximal security benefits. My experience is no other publicly available OS
takes security as seriously. We were unable to use OpenBSD during the last
upgrade in 2001, because it didn't support multiple cpu's nor the scsi
hardware raid at the time. Now that it does, I'd hoped it was now viable.
2. maximum longevity for using the same hardware for many years while handling
extremely variable loads. Upgrades range from 5-10 years at a time. During
the peak of the lord of the rings movies we were around 1.5 million unique
visitors per month. Not huge, but more than this very specialized community
usually experienced. It's petered off since, but is likely to pick up with
the next movies on the way.
3. High uptime and low maintenance requirements (not having to constantly
patch every week, etc.).
4. Low/affordable pricepoint (I've bought each version of openbsd since around
2.8/3.0 (fuzzy on exactly when) or so, to support it's development, even in
periods where I didn't use it.
However, in order to use it, it must support the hardware we have (not require
something that we don't have), and support the key software components that
are non-negotiable (python/zope/plone).
I was stating the openbsd community to mean the community as a whole, not just
this list.
As far as "in the time we have". There's no hard and fast deadline, but we
never expected it to take this long. As long as the old server is still
going, it's stopping us from launching the new version of our site, but it's
not interfering with the current/old site.
Yes, there are more folks using Linux, but if OpenBSD is the best tool for the
job, I'd prefer we used that instead. However, if it's not the best tool for
our needs, then we should figure out what is. Are you and Rogier basically
saying "Openbsd is not for you"?
It's interesting the different character of responses so far on this topic.
I've posted in the past and had helpful responses that have stayed focused on
helping solve the technical issue, without getting into a
quasi-business/technical scope discussion.
Maybe that's partly my fault for bringing up those concerns in a general
sense.
I'm just surprised by the people basically saying "you don't have enough
openbsd experience, so you shouldn't use it". That's a counter-productive way
to increase adoption of obsd. And definitely not the experience I've had over
the years with the obsd community.
Though I've been retired since '03, so I am a bit "rusty",(after working in
the industry since 1981, albeit never any significant implementations of
openbsd beyond firewalling), I'm well aware of what "migrations" are like on
all scales, and in many levels. This is just a little side project that I've
stepped into to try to help out with. It would be nice to have it in a far
more organized structure and process, but that is not now how it is. As it is
we just want to get this particular web server up and running. Myself and one
other would like to believe openbsd is the best tool for the job in the long
run. Though she is feeling very frustrated and doubtful now, she is
admittedly far less experienced. The rest of the volunteers were open to it,
but are not feeling very encouraged about it now, especially as these
responses have been forwarded to the rest of them.
The useful suggestions from J.R.R. Spiegel on this topic were much more along
the lines of typical helpfulness that was expected.
I hope that the dialog will stay more in that direction.
Now, back on track.
Does anyone have any suggestions for better instructions to use than the
Eclectica website (that covers 3.8)? If not, any caveats other than already
stated that maybe should be different from those directions?
If no other better "howto" is available, I'll proceed using it if/until
someone can point to a better resource (which would be gladly used).
I will adjust the specs for the partitioning and get rid of the /boot mistake,
which was definitely a mistaken "linuxism" by the person who originally tried
to set this up.
I'll adjust the wd0a and wd1a to once again be the root/bsd/boot partition,
and the rest should easily fall back in place (hopefully).
I'll post when I have results one way or another after following Spiegel's
suggestions.
Unless anyone has any other _technical_ suggestions or corrections to his post
as caveats?
Thank you,
Cheers!
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