As far as I understand, the OpenBSD position appears to be that trying to police users by forbidding them to maintain and retrieve port metadata about unfree software via this adjunct service (that is not included in the OS) would be a restriction of the users' freedom. Obviously I disagree with that position. This isn't an issue of the users' freedom at all. It is an issue of what OpenBSD says to the public.
GCC contains a file called config/sol2.h: /* Operating system specific defines to be used when targeting GCC for any Solaris 2 system. Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. What does that say to the public? It says you can use gcc on a non-free operating system. How's it feel to be a hypocrite? What about gcc/config/rs6000/aix.h gcc/config/vax/vms.h Or how about gcc/config/i386/win32.h: /* Operating system specific defines to be used when targeting GCC for hosting on Windows NT 3.x, using a Unix style C library and tools, as distinct from winnt.h, which is used to build GCC for use with a windows style library and tool set and uses the Microsoft tools. Copyright (C) 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. And hordes -- thousands upon thousands -- of #ifdef's and other crap to support the Windows ABI. I note that date of 1995 on the above file. That's around the last time when you were around actually touching code, right? Richard, you are a total hypocrite. You are in here creating a fuss about our software, saying it is non-free, when you are doing exactly the same thing yourself.
Please see http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/faq2.html And ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/ What's that, there? Emacs *binaries* for *Windows* Supplied right by Richard's http and ftp mirrors. Richard, I may be unfriendly, but you are a lying hypocritical asshole.
I believe Richard might have been misinformed about ports, while you... ... should know better. It's the difference between helping people run more Free Software vs spreading proprietary software. Talking about "lies", or "hypocrisy" is nothing more than petty insulting. Rui -- All Hail Discordia! Today is Boomtime, the 55th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3173 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...?
This is directly enabling people to continue using non-free software while feeling good about it (if they don't think too hard). -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD User Group | MetaBUG firstname.lastname@example.org | http://phxbug.org/ | http://metabug.org/ http://www.stilyagin.com/ | Daemons in the Desert | Global BUG Federation
Someone already mentioned Hitler. Can we let this thread die. --- Marina Brown
Nice double speak. The fact of the matter is he's encouraging the usage of non-free OSes. Greg -- Dethink to survive - Mclusky
Not to mention: http://directory.fsf.org/project/reactOS/ - "ReactOS is a project to create a free operating system that is compatible with Windows NT so users can have access to a free operating system but still run their favorite Windows PC programs and drivers." http://directory.fsf.org/project/Windows32API/ - "It is a set of header files and import libraries that can be used by GNU tools for compiling and linking programs to be run under operating systems supporting the Win32 Application Programming Interface. " http://directory.fsf.org/project/gtmess/ - "gtmess is a console MSN Messenger client for GNU/Linux and other systems that conform to the POSIX standard. It supports the MSNP9 protocol version." http://directory.fsf.org/project/macssh/ "...This is a Macintosh version for SSH." http://directory.fsf.org/project/djgpp/ "Complete 32-bit C/C++ development system for Intel 80386 (and higher) PCs running DOS." Etc. etc. etc. - it's all over the place. If the cygwin stuff (dunno if it is or not) is merged into the main source repository, then we can assume that virtually every piece of GNU code has been designed to work with windows, so it can't be recommended. Thus does the revolution devour its children. Given the plain weirdness of the arguments "Richard Stallman" has been making, maybe we should consider the possibility that we've been had by an impostor trying to get a rise out of the OBSD crowd. ;) If not, then the interesting question is, why is he doing this, really? All the pronouncements about freedom, and the Important Life Lessons about how mentioning a thing is tantamount to endorsing it - it just doesn't add up, it's too silly. I wonder what the real agenda is. -gregg
Mr. Stallman you are nude, please stop.
this pretty much sums up everything. can we all stop now? (-: aaron.glenn
Nah, it's too much fun... seriously though, even though ultimately pointless, I think it's a worthy public debate. Let him expound his theories and ethics and let's dissect them layer by layer. For the record.
Put another way: The presence of an OpenBSD port entry for "opera" encourages the wider use of OpenBSD and all the other free software that implies. The presence of a port of gcc to Windoze encourages the development of software, free and otherwise, for Windoze, encouraging the wider use of Windoze and all the "unfree" software that Windoze implies. A good example of the second case is the encouragement to use Windoze that the gcc-enabled port of Mozilla-* to Windoze has almost certainly caused. I would use the lousy and dangerous behavior of I.E. as an advocacy talking-point to lure Windoze users away from their drug. Mozilla-* has weakened that talking-point. I like opensource, free software. I'll continue to support the OS and userland that best advances that cause. That would be OpenBSD. Dave -- I told you so. -- Cassandra
Then there's the practical side to consider. Most computer users simply do not care about freedom. They only want their stuff to work. Even among the local Linux crowd in my town, if I bring up an issue of freedom I get a frigid response, or even outright anger. Mostly they want a blanket blessing for using Free Software (even when it's not), and they want to stick it to Microsoft. And... they don't want to think, or evaluate, and make a tough choice. So, in that sense GNU, the FSF, and your personal recommendations aren't having the effects they should. Hmm. In the past years I've been using OpenBSD I've had more education on software freedom than the previous decade of using Linux. As a community, OpenBSD users are much more aware of these issues, I believe. If you can accept that, then consider that a more educated user base is more capable of making their own decisions. The ports collection includes some licensing information about each port's Makefile. The binary packages do not contain non-free software at all. So OpenBSD has given me plenty of information to make a choice. So, in practice, OpenBSD is doing just fine to promote software freedoms. If principles are important then it's important to see those principles used in everyday life by the community at large. If you can't recommend OpenBSD from where you stand maybe you should have a fresh look from somewhere just a few feet away. Things look different from here. -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD User Group | MetaBUG email@example.com | http://phxbug.org/ | http://metabug.org/ http://www.stilyagin.com/ | Daemons in the Desert | Global BUG Federation
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