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Re: Real men don't attack straw men

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To: Richard Stallman <rms@...>
Cc: <misc@...>
Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 10:10 pm

* Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> [2007-12-12 17:52:29]:


So you support the freedom to install whatever the hell you want?
However, the OS should not suggest that to the user?

I guess everything is fine unless the secret gets out...
Especially since it's pretty easy to add new repositories on many
ports systems.

I think that if you do get what you want,
Stallman, it's going to be because the user wants that too.  It's
their choice, and _I don't see how operating systems should be
incharge of morality._

The people who ought to be incharge of morality are people themselves.
Every person needs to make a conscious decision to act in such and
such a manner.  You can certainly advise them, but heavy-handed
action such as gNewSense is a bit too much for me.

It also seems silly to me this idea between "tainted" and "clean"
oses, such as Open and gNewSense, respectively.  Take for example
a user that runs Ubuntu Linux but proscribes to your free-only
philosophy.  They don't have to install the adobe flash plugin
(which I believe is still a binary of sorts.) They can choose not
to.  If they are choosing not to do it because of ideological
grounds, they are probably well-informed.  The only difference in
the end is choice.  It's the choice that matters, not what the
distribution ships with.  Hell, still on this example user, adobe
flash could even come installed and they never use it, what's the
difference between that and gNewSense?  Is it the orientation of
the bits on their hard drive that matters?  How about their neighbor's
hard drive?

Where do you draw the line?

-- 
Travers Buda
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Messages in current thread:
Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Mon Dec 10, 11:18 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marc Balmer, (Thu Dec 13, 4:30 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Borja Tarraso, (Thu Dec 13, 6:05 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jack J. Woehr, (Thu Dec 13, 7:16 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Whyzzi, (Thu Dec 13, 8:18 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Thu Dec 13, 6:15 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jason Dixon, (Thu Dec 13, 8:39 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Rod Whitworth, (Thu Dec 13, 8:16 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Rod Whitworth, (Thu Dec 13, 6:22 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marc Balmer, (Thu Dec 13, 4:35 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, RedShift, (Tue Dec 11, 5:23 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Tom Van Looy, (Tue Dec 11, 3:39 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Johan SANCHEZ, (Tue Dec 11, 4:33 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, mcb, inc., (Tue Dec 11, 4:10 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jack J. Woehr, (Tue Dec 11, 4:49 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jacob Meuser, (Tue Dec 11, 7:53 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:51 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Daniel Ouellet, (Thu Dec 13, 4:59 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 4:49 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Alexander Terekhov, (Fri Jan 4, 9:18 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Sam Fourman Jr., (Fri Dec 14, 7:54 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jonathan Gray, (Fri Dec 14, 7:58 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marco Peereboom, (Fri Dec 14, 6:46 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Benjamin M. A'Lee, (Thu Dec 13, 9:03 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marco Peereboom, (Thu Dec 13, 4:39 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Matthew Dempsky, (Thu Dec 13, 7:15 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Daniel Ouellet, (Thu Dec 13, 8:57 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Nick Guenther, (Thu Dec 13, 1:59 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jack J. Woehr, (Tue Dec 11, 8:11 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jacob Meuser, (Tue Dec 11, 11:46 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jan Stary, (Tue Dec 11, 9:01 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Tue Dec 11, 7:56 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Paul de Weerd, (Thu Dec 13, 7:15 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Kyle George, (Wed Dec 12, 6:03 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:51 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Constantine A. Murenin, (Thu Dec 13, 2:35 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Erik Wikström, (Thu Dec 13, 2:34 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, , (Thu Dec 13, 1:21 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 4:50 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men , Theo de Raadt, (Thu Dec 13, 2:54 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Han Boetes, (Fri Dec 14, 7:02 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, V. Karthik Kumar, (Thu Dec 13, 7:20 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jack J. Woehr, (Thu Dec 13, 4:30 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jason Dixon, (Tue Dec 11, 8:24 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Wed Dec 12, 6:53 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, ropers, (Wed Dec 12, 9:12 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jacob Meuser, (Mon Dec 10, 8:58 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marc Espie, (Mon Dec 10, 6:21 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Martin Schröder, (Mon Dec 10, 4:26 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Tue Dec 11, 3:00 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Steve Shockley, (Tue Dec 11, 6:31 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Gordon Grieder, (Thu Dec 13, 1:04 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 4:49 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marc Espie, (Sat Dec 15, 2:42 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Travers Buda, (Fri Dec 14, 9:50 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men , Theo de Raadt, (Fri Dec 14, 8:20 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, L, (Wed Dec 12, 4:16 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Wed Dec 12, 6:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men , Theo de Raadt, (Wed Dec 12, 7:10 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack sign men, L, (Thu Dec 13, 1:29 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, STeve Andre', (Tue Dec 11, 5:49 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, michael hamerski, (Thu Dec 13, 5:09 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Eric Furman, (Thu Dec 13, 2:59 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra, (Tue Dec 11, 7:56 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Ray Percival, (Tue Dec 11, 5:53 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jason Beaudoin, (Mon Dec 10, 3:54 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Steve Shockley, (Mon Dec 10, 1:45 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Tue Dec 11, 3:00 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Steve Shockley, (Tue Dec 11, 6:21 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Mayuresh Kathe, (Thu Dec 13, 1:30 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Tom Rosso, (Thu Dec 13, 2:58 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Greg Thomas, (Thu Dec 13, 9:06 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, mickey, (Thu Dec 13, 4:43 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jacob Yocom-Piatt, (Thu Dec 13, 6:28 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Karsten McMinn, (Tue Dec 11, 4:21 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Wed Dec 12, 6:53 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men , Theo de Raadt, (Wed Dec 12, 7:30 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Nick Guenther, (Tue Dec 11, 5:11 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Iñigo, (Tue Dec 11, 3:49 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Lars Noodén, (Tue Dec 11, 4:09 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marcus Andree, (Tue Dec 11, 3:36 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Wed Dec 12, 4:37 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marc Espie, (Wed Dec 12, 1:01 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:51 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Tom Rosso, (Thu Dec 13, 1:53 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, bofh, (Thu Dec 13, 3:30 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Tom Rosso, (Thu Dec 13, 6:50 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marco Peereboom, (Thu Dec 13, 8:24 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men , Theo de Raadt, (Thu Dec 13, 1:55 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men , David Vasek, (Thu Dec 13, 5:43 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Rodrigo V. Raimundo, (Wed Dec 12, 11:22 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:51 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Stuart Henderson, (Thu Dec 13, 2:43 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Ingo Schwarze, (Thu Dec 13, 9:49 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jason Beaudoin, (Thu Dec 13, 5:02 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Karthik Kumar, (Thu Dec 13, 7:32 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Gilles Chehade, (Fri Dec 14, 1:06 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marco Peereboom, (Thu Dec 13, 8:22 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Rod Whitworth, (Thu Dec 13, 8:58 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men , Theo de Raadt, (Thu Dec 13, 2:07 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marcus Andree, (Wed Dec 12, 1:25 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marti Martinez, (Wed Dec 12, 6:15 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jack J. Woehr, (Wed Dec 12, 6:26 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Mattieu Baptiste, (Wed Dec 12, 5:30 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Mattieu Baptiste, (Thu Dec 13, 1:37 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 4:49 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jacob Meuser, (Fri Dec 14, 9:13 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, ropers, (Sat Dec 15, 3:40 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, , (Sat Dec 15, 4:55 am)
UUCP to mars, Douglas A. Tutty, (Sat Dec 15, 10:04 am)
Re: UUCP to mars, Travers Buda, (Sat Dec 15, 3:56 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, bofh, (Fri Dec 14, 6:15 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jacob Yocom-Piatt, (Wed Dec 12, 12:37 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Andrés, (Wed Dec 12, 1:04 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Wed Dec 12, 4:37 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Wed Dec 12, 4:37 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, ropers, (Wed Dec 12, 5:54 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Eric Furman, (Thu Dec 13, 2:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 4:49 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Chris Zakelj, (Fri Dec 14, 8:11 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, ropers, (Wed Dec 12, 10:16 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Iñigo Tejedor Arrondo, (Wed Dec 12, 10:48 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, michael hamerski, (Wed Dec 12, 12:45 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Marco Peereboom, (Mon Dec 10, 12:59 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Tue Dec 11, 3:00 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, RedShift, (Tue Dec 11, 6:09 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, William Boshuck, (Tue Dec 11, 5:25 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men , Theo de Raadt, (Tue Dec 11, 5:47 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Gilles Chehade, (Thu Dec 13, 3:57 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 4:50 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Gilles Chehade, (Fri Dec 14, 3:41 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jonathan Franks, (Thu Dec 13, 5:11 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 4:49 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Gregg Reynolds, (Thu Dec 13, 5:06 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jason McIntyre, (Thu Dec 13, 5:09 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Christopher Linn, (Thu Dec 13, 4:14 pm)
Re: : Real men don't attack straw men, Raimo Niskanen, (Thu Dec 13, 3:26 pm)
Re: : Real men don't attack straw men, Rick Pettit, (Fri Dec 14, 2:50 am)
Re: : Real men don't attack straw men , Theo de Raadt, (Fri Dec 14, 3:20 am)
Re: : Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 4:50 pm)
Re: : Real men don't attack straw men, overdrive openbsd, (Fri Dec 14, 7:17 am)
Re: : Real men don't attack straw men, Jason Beaudoin, (Thu Dec 13, 7:54 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, William Boshuck, (Thu Dec 13, 2:48 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Ben Calvert, (Thu Dec 13, 2:54 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, William Boshuck, (Wed Dec 12, 5:36 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, ropers, (Tue Dec 11, 8:17 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Thu Dec 13, 12:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Rafael Almeida, (Thu Dec 13, 3:17 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Constantine A. Murenin, (Thu Dec 13, 2:54 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Travers Buda, (Wed Dec 12, 12:55 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Wed Dec 12, 6:52 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Travers Buda, (Wed Dec 12, 10:10 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 6:09 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jason Beaudoin, (Fri Dec 14, 3:55 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Eric Furman, (Fri Dec 14, 11:31 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Damien Miller, (Fri Dec 14, 8:37 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Martin Schröder, (Wed Dec 12, 7:32 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Fri Dec 14, 4:50 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Martin Schröder, (Sat Dec 15, 7:12 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Gilles Chehade, (Sat Dec 15, 5:10 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Tony Abernethy, (Sat Dec 15, 9:00 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men , Theo de Raadt, (Wed Dec 12, 7:28 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Amarendra Godbole, (Thu Dec 13, 1:46 am)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, ropers, (Tue Dec 11, 11:46 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jason Beaudoin, (Tue Dec 11, 4:47 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Josh Grosse, (Tue Dec 11, 3:55 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Nick Guenther, (Tue Dec 11, 4:44 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Daniel Ouellet, (Tue Dec 11, 3:44 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jacob Yocom-Piatt, (Mon Dec 10, 1:55 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Doug Fordham, (Mon Dec 10, 3:43 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Jacob Yocom-Piatt, (Mon Dec 10, 4:31 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Doug Fordham, (Mon Dec 10, 6:50 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Matthew Dempsky, (Mon Dec 10, 6:20 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Nick Guenther, (Mon Dec 10, 1:12 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Richard Stallman, (Tue Dec 11, 3:01 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Steve Shockley, (Mon Dec 10, 1:57 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Reyk Floeter, (Mon Dec 10, 3:58 pm)
Re: Real men don't attack straw men, Gilles Chehade, (Mon Dec 10, 1:47 pm)
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