On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 04:55:20PM +0100, Pierre Riteau wrote:

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> On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:30:24AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:

> > On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt  wrote:

> >

> > > They don't need a list.  They could already have started coding.  Yet

> > > we see how few people actually do start coding.  Instead, they choose

> > > to write in english...

> >

> > How can we get started on the code unless we have some idea of where

> > to start on the code? Sure we could just code whatever, but why would

> > we waste time on things that may be useless?

> >

> > > > Obviously patches will be subject to peer review. Even if a patch isn't

> > > > approved, the coder should have learned something new and useful.

> > >

> > > Yeah, right.

> >

> > I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do

> > you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is

> > approved? Or will the patches not be subject to peer review? Or are

> > you worried at who would pass for peer review getting overwhelmed by a

> > huge volume of poor quality patches?

> >

> > -Nick

> >

>

> Remember the motto guys: it's ``shut up and hack'', not whine about

> getting something to do, then whine about how to do it, and hack.

>

> If you don't know what to do, read source code, then hack.

Here I'd like to warn before substituting reading code for reading interface

specification. What happened on the Linux kernel shows that code cannot be by

principle substituted for interface specification:
1. Person A wrote a nonblocking function X performing a task T. The spec

   in his mind was "X does T, whether it blocks or not is undefined."

2. Person B looked into the code, saw X does T in a nonblocking way and

   inferred: "the spec for X is that it does T in a nonblocking way"

3. B wrote a caller function that called X with an assumption that X doesn't

   block, everything was OK

4. A rewrote X in a way that now it blocks

5. Since now a hidden deadlock is in the kernel and noone has the slightest

   idea that anything wrong has happened.
CL<

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> If you don't know how to read source code, then learn by reading books,

> then read source code, then hack.

> If you don't want to read, just shut up.

>

> Pierre Riteau

> -- a modest contributor who like the way it is.