> > They don't need a list.  They could already have started coding.  Yet

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> > we see how few people actually do start coding.  Instead, they choose

> > to write in english...

>

> on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are

> unable to communicate productively otherwise.

	"we appear to have people who can code"
we do?
then they had better start proving it, instead of whining.
> surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level

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> development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to

> encourage people to enter the development cycle.  of course, there

> will be a large attrition rate, most people like the idea but can't

> stick the learning curve.  others may be intelligent and able but less

> confident and just need pointed in the right direction.

the source code is out there.
the problem is not our lists.
it is motivation.  the minute they are motivated to stop whining and

actually look in the code, then they might do something useful.
but no.  they intend to keep whining, and saying it is our fault.
> obviously the intention should be to try and capture the latter without

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> loosing energy on the former.

if you wanted us to not lose energy, a lot of you would have shut up

and started looking at the source a couple messages ago.