Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors

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To: Nick Guenther <kousue@...>
Cc: OpenBSD <misc@...>
Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 10:53 am

* Nick Guenther [2007-10-31 08:40]:

Simple. You start reading code.

No, newbies learn something by reading code. and finding
something they are interested and passionate enough in to learn
how something very difficult works, then realizing that they are
a complete idiot and it doesn't work that way, and then doing it
again, several times.

> Or will the patches not be subject to peer review? Or are

Yes, and yes.

Basically look, when it comes to the kernel there are two
types of student, the self taught, and the hopeless. While we
will more than be willing to help people who take the initiative themselves
to look for something and work on it. This takes a significant amount
of our time and energy. A lot of it actually. Yes, learning the kernel
and how the basics work is a barrier to entry. It needs to be so, people
without the motivation to get over that hump on their own will simply
sap too much time from the people who have otherwise.

Basically I'm telling you, if you want to play in this area, you need
to earn your stripes. *earn* - not have shown to you. Sorry if that
sounds elitist, but that's the simple fact. Already overworked senior
developers do not have time to spoon feed people who already
demonstrate that they will not take the initiative to learn things on
their own. Sorry, that's just the facts guys. It's the difference between:

1) Help me, I don't know how this works but it's cool I want to do things.
- Did you try to figure it out?
No please show me. Tell me what to do...

and

2) Ok, I think this is important, and I think it works this way...
- No you're not quite right, your assumptions are wrong at a, b, and c
go back and try again
Oh, ok

Number 2 gets to doing useful things a hell of a lot faster, and the
time spent by the person giving the "-" reply is a heck of a lot more
productive.

-Bob

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Messages in current thread:
OpenBSD kernel janitors, Karel Kulhavy, (Tue Oct 30, 3:31 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Miod Vallat, (Tue Oct 30, 4:26 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Karel Kulhavy, (Sat Nov 3, 6:53 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Daniel Ouellet, (Sat Nov 3, 5:16 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Hannah Schroeter, (Sat Nov 3, 5:30 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Matthias Kilian, (Sat Nov 3, 6:44 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Daniel Ouellet, (Sat Nov 3, 7:16 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Daniel Ouellet, (Sat Nov 3, 6:13 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Gerardo Santana Gómez Garrido..., (Tue Oct 30, 8:52 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Richard Wilson, (Wed Oct 31, 8:52 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, n0g0013, (Tue Oct 30, 9:20 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Marcus Andree, (Wed Oct 31, 8:15 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors , Theo de Raadt, (Wed Oct 31, 10:20 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Nick Guenther, (Wed Oct 31, 10:30 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Daniel Ouellet, (Wed Oct 31, 4:34 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Pierre Riteau, (Wed Oct 31, 11:55 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Karel Kulhavy, (Sat Nov 3, 7:23 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Marc Espie, (Wed Oct 31, 1:07 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Philip Guenther, (Wed Oct 31, 11:37 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Bob Beck, (Wed Oct 31, 10:53 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Nick Guenther, (Wed Oct 31, 11:02 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Tony Abernethy, (Wed Oct 31, 10:50 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, , (Wed Oct 31, 11:01 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Ben Goren, (Wed Oct 31, 10:38 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Artur Grabowski, (Wed Oct 31, 11:44 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, n0g0013, (Wed Oct 31, 11:54 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Peter N. M. Hansteen, (Wed Oct 31, 2:28 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Ted Unangst, (Wed Oct 31, 3:57 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Owain Ainsworth, (Thu Nov 1, 5:15 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Darrin Chandler, (Wed Oct 31, 4:05 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors , Theo de Raadt, (Wed Oct 31, 11:49 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Karel Kulhavy, (Sat Nov 3, 7:16 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, William Boshuck, (Sat Nov 3, 8:56 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Jonathan Gray, (Sat Nov 3, 7:56 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, n0g0013, (Wed Oct 31, 11:56 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Luke Bakken, (Wed Oct 31, 2:57 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, bofh, (Wed Oct 31, 12:52 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Claudio Jeker, (Wed Oct 31, 12:48 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Claudio Jeker, (Wed Oct 31, 12:10 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors , Theo de Raadt, (Wed Oct 31, 12:05 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, n0g0013, (Wed Oct 31, 12:10 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, mickey, (Wed Oct 31, 11:25 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Marcus Andree, (Wed Oct 31, 11:41 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Ted Unangst, (Wed Oct 31, 12:58 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, mickey, (Wed Oct 31, 12:47 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Bret Lambert, (Wed Oct 31, 1:08 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, n0g0013, (Wed Oct 31, 11:50 am)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Jason McIntyre, (Wed Oct 31, 1:10 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, mickey, (Wed Oct 31, 12:58 pm)
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors, Ted Unangst, (Wed Oct 31, 12:54 pm)