Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, take three

Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]
From: Paul E. McKenney
Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010 - 10:43 am

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 02:11:22PM +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote:

The question is not whether suspend blockers are a silver bullet (in my
opinion there are no silver bullets), but rather whether or not suspend
blockers are useful.


As does dynamic power management.


Really?  From what I can see, only PM-driving applications need to use
suspend blockers.


Fortunately, experience thus far has shown that only a small fraction of
applications need to use suspend blockers.  (Or perhaps you are instead
saying that the implementation of the suspend-blocker infrastructure
itself is not straightforward?  It is not clear from your words.)


This one I agree with.


The length of this thread (and the ones preceding it) is mostly due to
people talking past each other.  For example, the Android folks seem to
believe that it is important that relatively unskilled people be able
to write simple apps, and that the system nevertheless be able to run
these apps in a relatively energy efficient manner.  Your proposals do
not address this issue.  This might be because you are not aware of
this desire, because you are not aware of the computing history that
argues in favor of this requirement, or because you simply don't like
this requirement.  Whatever the reason, until you face this requirement
head on, either addressing it or proving that it need not be addressed,
you will continue to be talking past the Android folks.

							Thanx, Paul
--
Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]

Messages in current thread:
Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Jul 31, 10:58 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sat Jul 31, 9:52 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Jul 31, 10:48 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sat Jul 31, 11:01 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Mikael Abrahamsson, (Sat Jul 31, 11:24 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Mikael Abrahamsson, (Sat Jul 31, 11:49 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 12:12 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 12:27 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 3:47 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 3:49 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 4:00 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Aug 1, 4:02 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 4:12 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 6:10 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 8:03 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 1, 8:04 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 8:06 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 1, 9:05 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Sun Aug 1, 10:34 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Sun Aug 1, 10:44 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Sun Aug 1, 11:40 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Sun Aug 1, 11:53 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Mon Aug 2, 12:23 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 2, 6:52 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 7:00 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 2, 7:08 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 7:09 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 7:12 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 1:36 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 2, 2:33 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Mon Aug 2, 3:27 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 2, 3:40 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Mon Aug 2, 8:21 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Mon Aug 2, 9:18 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Mon Aug 2, 9:56 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Mon Aug 2, 10:01 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Tue Aug 3, 4:25 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Tue Aug 3, 4:26 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Tue Aug 3, 7:11 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Tue Aug 3, 8:41 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 3:23 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 3:47 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Tue Aug 3, 5:10 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Tue Aug 3, 6:09 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Tue Aug 3, 6:34 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 8:39 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arjan van de Ven, (Tue Aug 3, 8:57 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Olivier Galibert, (Tue Aug 3, 9:58 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 10:22 pm)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 10:43 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Tue Aug 3, 10:46 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 10:59 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 11:03 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Tue Aug 3, 11:12 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Olivier Galibert, (Tue Aug 3, 11:28 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Tue Aug 3, 11:50 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 12:10 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Wed Aug 4, 12:35 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 4:47 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 9:27 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 9:32 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 9:35 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 11:32 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 11:39 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 11:55 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 12:21 pm)
Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, take two, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 12:57 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 12:57 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 1:08 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 1:31 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Pavel Machek, (Wed Aug 4, 1:42 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 1:43 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 1:46 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 1:48 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 1:51 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 1:51 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Wed Aug 4, 1:56 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Pavel Machek, (Wed Aug 4, 2:15 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 2:15 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 2:31 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Wed Aug 4, 2:39 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 3:08 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 3:51 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 4:06 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 4:10 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Anca Emanuel, (Wed Aug 4, 4:13 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 4:15 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 4:19 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 4:26 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 4:30 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 4:33 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 4:40 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 5:10 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 5:15 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 5:17 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Aug 4, 5:20 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 5:48 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Wed Aug 4, 6:02 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matt Helsley, (Wed Aug 4, 6:58 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Wed Aug 4, 7:02 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 7:39 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Wed Aug 4, 7:46 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matt Helsley, (Wed Aug 4, 8:25 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 8:59 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Wed Aug 4, 9:05 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Wed Aug 4, 10:33 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Florian Mickler, (Wed Aug 4, 10:56 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 6:38 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 6:40 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 6:47 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 7:16 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 7:23 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 7:29 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Thu Aug 5, 7:33 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 8:12 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 8:15 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Aug 5, 8:34 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 11:09 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, kevin granade, (Thu Aug 5, 11:13 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 11:20 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 11:21 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 1:31 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, kevin granade, (Thu Aug 5, 1:51 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Thu Aug 5, 3:02 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 3:16 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 4:03 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 4:05 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 5, 4:19 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Aug 5, 4:41 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 5:13 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 5:22 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 5:29 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Aug 5, 5:42 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Brian Swetland, (Thu Aug 5, 6:22 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Arve Hjønnevåg, (Thu Aug 5, 6:29 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 9:00 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 10:09 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 10:22 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 10:24 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 11:18 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 6, 5:36 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sat Aug 7, 2:01 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Aug 7, 7:36 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Aug 7, 8:07 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Paul E. McKenney, (Sat Aug 7, 2:11 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Felipe Contreras, (Sun Aug 8, 6:35 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Sun Aug 8, 9:08 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Felipe Contreras, (Sun Aug 8, 10:08 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Matthew Garrett, (Sun Aug 8, 10:09 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Wed Aug 11, 12:18 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Wed Aug 11, 12:25 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, Felipe Contreras, (Wed Aug 11, 5:23 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 12, 10:43 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Thu Aug 12, 10:52 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Thu Aug 12, 11:38 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Thu Aug 12, 12:00 pm)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Dominik Brodowski, (Thu Aug 12, 12:27 pm)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Felipe Contreras, (Thu Aug 12, 12:34 pm)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Dominik Brodowski, (Thu Aug 12, 12:52 pm)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Felipe Contreras, (Fri Aug 13, 3:43 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Dominik Brodowski, (Fri Aug 13, 8:57 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Dominik Brodowski, (Fri Aug 13, 9:19 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Felipe Contreras, (Fri Aug 13, 9:19 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., James Bottomley, (Fri Aug 13, 10:11 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Fri Aug 13, 10:13 am)
Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, tak ..., Paul E. McKenney, (Sun Aug 15, 12:00 am)
Re: [linux-pm] Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML ..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Mon Aug 16, 2:11 pm)