Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into a single project

Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]
From: Ingo Molnar
Date: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 7:54 am

* Pekka Enberg <penberg@cs.helsinki.fi> wrote:


See my previous mail - what i see as the most healthy project model is to have 
a full solution reference implementation, connected to a flexible halo of 
plugins or sub-apps.

Firefox does that, KDE does that, and Gnome as well to a certain degree.

The 'halo' provides a constant feedback of new features, and it also provides 
competition and pressure on the 'main' code to be top-notch.

The problem i see with KVM is that there's no reference implementation! There 
is _only_ the KVM kernel part which is not functional in itself. Surrounded by 
a 'halo' - where none of the entities is really 'the' reference implementation 
we call 'KVM'.

This causes constant quality problems as the developers of the main project 
dont have constant pressure towards good quality (it is not their 
responsibility to care about user-space bits after all), plus it causes a lack 
of focus as well: integration between (friendly) competing user-space 
components is a lot harder than integration within a single framework such as 
Firefox.

I hope this explains my points about modularization a bit better! I suggested 
KVM to grow a user-space tool component in the kernel repo in tools/kvm/, 
which would become the reference implementation for tooling. User-space 
projects can still provide alternative tooling or can plug into this tooling, 
just like they are doing it now. So the main effect isnt even on those 
projects but on the kernel developers. The ABI remains and all the user-space 
packages and projects remain.

Yes, i thought Qemu would be a prime candidate to be the baseline for 
tools/kvm/, but i guess that has become socially impossible now after this 
flamewar. It's not a big problem in the big scheme of things: tools/kvm/ is 
best grown up from a small towards larger size anyway ...

Thanks,
 
	Ingo
--
Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]

Messages in current thread:
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 5:33 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Thu Mar 18, 6:03 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 6:24 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Thu Mar 18, 6:44 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 7:39 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Thu Mar 18, 11:10 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Thu Mar 18, 11:20 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frederic Weisbecker, (Thu Mar 18, 11:20 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 12:50 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Fri Mar 19, 2:52 am)
Re: [LKML] Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space ..., Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk, (Fri Mar 19, 6:56 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Fri Mar 19, 7:53 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Sat Mar 20, 7:59 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Sun Mar 21, 1:08 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 5:37 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 5:54 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 6:05 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Richard W.M. Jones, (Mon Mar 22, 6:23 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Richard W.M. Jones, (Mon Mar 22, 7:01 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Ingo Molnar, (Mon Mar 22, 7:54 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Mon Mar 22, 9:44 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Mon Mar 22, 10:17 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:28 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:30 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:35 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:41 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:15 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:18 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Mon Mar 22, 12:28 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:29 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 12:31 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:33 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 1:58 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Tue Mar 23, 2:46 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Bernd Petrovitsch, (Tue Mar 23, 3:48 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 6:15 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 7:10 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 7:29 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Javier Guerra Giraldez, (Tue Mar 23, 12:05 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Wed Mar 24, 8:26 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Wed Mar 24, 10:47 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Wed Mar 24, 11:27 am)