Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into a single project

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From: Ingo Molnar
Date: Monday, March 22, 2010 - 5:44 am

* Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com> wrote:


You should know the answer yourself: the difference is that usability is a 
core quality of any project.

I as a maintainer can be neutral towards a number of features and patch 
attributes that i dont consider key aspects. (although they can grow out to 
become key features in the future. SMP was a fringe thing 15 years ago.)

Usability is not an attribute you can ignore and i for sure am never neutral 
towards usability deficiencies in patches - i consider usability a key 
quality.


Whether a feature is usable or not is sure a metric of 'goodness'.

You have restricted your metric of goodness artificially to not include 
usability. You do that by claiming that the user-space tooling of KVM, while 
being functionally absolutely essential for any user to even try out KVM, is 
'separate' and has no quality connection with the kernel bits of KVM.

It is a convenient argument that allows you to do the kernel bits only. It is 
absolutely catastrophic to the user who'd like to see a usable solution and a 
single project who stands behind their tech.

Thus, _today_, after years of neglect, you can claim that none of the dozens 
of usability problems of KVM has anything to do with the features you are 
working on today. It's in a separate project (the so-called 'Qemu' package) 
after all - none of KVM's business.

In reality if you consider it a single project then those bugs were all 
usability problems introduced earlier on, years ago, when a piece of 
functionality was exposed via KVM. It adds up and now you claim they have 
nothing to do with current work.

This is why i consider that line of argument rather dishonest ...

	Ingo
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Messages in current thread:
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 5:33 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Thu Mar 18, 6:03 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 6:24 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Thu Mar 18, 6:44 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 7:39 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Thu Mar 18, 11:10 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Thu Mar 18, 11:20 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frederic Weisbecker, (Thu Mar 18, 11:20 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 12:50 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Fri Mar 19, 2:52 am)
Re: [LKML] Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space ..., Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk, (Fri Mar 19, 6:56 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Fri Mar 19, 7:53 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Sat Mar 20, 7:59 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Sun Mar 21, 1:08 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 5:37 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Ingo Molnar, (Mon Mar 22, 5:44 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 5:54 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 6:05 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Richard W.M. Jones, (Mon Mar 22, 6:23 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Richard W.M. Jones, (Mon Mar 22, 7:01 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Mon Mar 22, 9:44 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Mon Mar 22, 10:17 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:28 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:30 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:35 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:41 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:15 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:18 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Mon Mar 22, 12:28 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:29 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 12:31 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:33 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 1:58 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Tue Mar 23, 2:46 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Bernd Petrovitsch, (Tue Mar 23, 3:48 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 6:15 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 7:10 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 7:29 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Javier Guerra Giraldez, (Tue Mar 23, 12:05 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Wed Mar 24, 8:26 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Wed Mar 24, 10:47 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Wed Mar 24, 11:27 am)