Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into a single project

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From: Ingo Molnar
Date: Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 12:06 pm

* Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com> wrote:


What does this have to do with RCU?

I'm talking about KVM, which is a Linux kernel feature that is useless without 
a proper, KVM-specific app making use of it.

RCU is a general kernel performance feature that works across the board. It 
helps KVM indirectly, and it helps many other kernel subsystems as well. It 
needs no user-space tool to be useful.

KVM on the other hand is useless without a user-space tool.

[ Theoretically you might have a fair point if it were a critical feature of 
  RCU for it to have a GUI, and if the main tool that made use of it sucked. 
  But it isnt and you should know that. ]

Had you suggested the following 'NAK', applied to a different, relevant 
subsystem:

  |   NAK.  Improving scalability is pointless while we don't have a usable 
  | tool.  I'll review you perf patches _after_ you've contributed a usable 
  | tool.

you would have a fair point. In fact, we are doing that we are living by that. 
It makes absolutely zero sense to improve the scalability of perf if its 
usability sucks.

So where you are trying to point out an inconsistency in my argument there is 
none.


That is my precise point.

KVM is a specific subsystem or "area" that makes no sense without the 
user-space tooling it relates to. You seem to argue that you have no 'right' 
to insist on good quality of that tooling - and IMO you are fundamentally 
wrong with that.

Thanks,

	Ingo
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Messages in current thread:
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 5:33 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Thu Mar 18, 6:03 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 6:24 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Thu Mar 18, 6:44 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 7:39 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Thu Mar 18, 11:10 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Thu Mar 18, 11:20 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frederic Weisbecker, (Thu Mar 18, 11:20 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 12:50 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Fri Mar 19, 2:52 am)
Re: [LKML] Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space ..., Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk, (Fri Mar 19, 6:56 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Fri Mar 19, 7:53 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Sat Mar 20, 7:59 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Ingo Molnar, (Sun Mar 21, 12:06 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Sun Mar 21, 1:08 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 5:37 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 5:54 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 6:05 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Richard W.M. Jones, (Mon Mar 22, 6:23 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Richard W.M. Jones, (Mon Mar 22, 7:01 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Mon Mar 22, 9:44 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Mon Mar 22, 10:17 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:28 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:30 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:35 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:41 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:15 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:18 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Mon Mar 22, 12:28 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:29 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 12:31 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:33 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 1:58 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Tue Mar 23, 2:46 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Bernd Petrovitsch, (Tue Mar 23, 3:48 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 6:15 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 7:10 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 7:29 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Javier Guerra Giraldez, (Tue Mar 23, 12:05 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Wed Mar 24, 8:26 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Wed Mar 24, 10:47 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Wed Mar 24, 11:27 am)