Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into a single project

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From: Avi Kivity
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010 - 1:20 am

On 03/17/2010 10:10 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:

Who should own the user interface then?


Any qemu usability problems are because developers (or their employers) 
are not interested in fixing them, not because of the repository 
location.  Most kvm developer interest is in server-side deployment 
(even for desktop guests), so there is limited effort in implementing a 
virtualbox-style GUI.


I'll ignore the repository location which should be immaterial to a 
serious developer and concentrate on the 'clean and minimal' aspect, 
since it has some merit.  Qemu development does have a tension between 
the needs of kvm and tcg.  For kvm we need fine-grained threading to 
improve performance and tons of RAS work.  For tcg these are mostly 
meaningless, and the tcg code has sufficient inertia to reduce the rate 
at which we can develop.

Nevertheless, the majority of developers feel that we'll lose more by a 
fork (the community) than we gain by it (reduced constraints).


The majority of patches to qemu don't require changes to kvm, and vice 
versa.  The interface between qemu and kvm is fairly narrow, and most of 
the changes are related to save/restore and guest debugging, hardly 
areas of great interest to the causal user.


When a feature is developed that requires both kernel and qemu changes, 
the same developer makes the changes in both projects.  Having them in 
different repositories does not appear to be a problem.


Let's make a list of projects who don't need to be in the kernel 
repository, it will probably be shorted.

Seriously, libvirt is a cross-platform cross-hypervisor library, it has 
no business near the Linux kernel.


In fact I try hard not to rely too much on that.  While both kvm guest 
and host code are in the same repo, there is an ABI barrier between them 
because we need to support any guest version on any host version.  When 
designing, writing, or reading guest or host code that interacts across 
that barrier we need to keep forward and backward compatibility in 
mind.  It's very different from normal kernel APIs that we can adapt 
whenever the need arises.


I really don't understand why you believe that.  You seem to want a 
virtualbox-style GUI, and lkml is probably the last place in the world 
to develop something like that.  The developers here are mostly 
uninterested in GUI and usability problems, remember these are people 
who thing emacs xor vi is a great editor.


Maybe it was due to better design and implementation choices.


Why is ABI compatibility easier to maintain in a single repo?


Do you really think the echo'n'cat school of usability wants to write a 
GUI?  In linux-2.6.git?

-- 
error compiling committee.c: too many arguments to function

--
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Messages in current thread:
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Avi Kivity, (Thu Mar 18, 1:20 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 5:33 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Thu Mar 18, 6:03 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 6:24 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Thu Mar 18, 6:44 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 7:39 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Thu Mar 18, 11:10 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Thu Mar 18, 11:20 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frederic Weisbecker, (Thu Mar 18, 11:20 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Thu Mar 18, 12:50 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Fri Mar 19, 2:52 am)
Re: [LKML] Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space ..., Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk, (Fri Mar 19, 6:56 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Fri Mar 19, 7:53 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Sat Mar 20, 7:59 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Sun Mar 21, 1:08 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 5:37 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 5:54 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 6:05 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Richard W.M. Jones, (Mon Mar 22, 6:23 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Richard W.M. Jones, (Mon Mar 22, 7:01 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Mon Mar 22, 9:44 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Frank Ch. Eigler, (Mon Mar 22, 10:17 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:28 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:30 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:35 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 11:41 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:15 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:18 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Andrea Arcangeli, (Mon Mar 22, 12:28 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:29 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 12:31 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Anthony Liguori, (Mon Mar 22, 12:33 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Mon Mar 22, 1:58 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Olivier Galibert, (Tue Mar 23, 2:46 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Bernd Petrovitsch, (Tue Mar 23, 3:48 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 6:15 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 7:10 am)
Re: [PATCH] Enhance perf to collect KVM guest os statistic ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Tue Mar 23, 7:29 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Javier Guerra Giraldez, (Tue Mar 23, 12:05 pm)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Daniel P. Berrange, (Wed Mar 24, 8:26 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Wed Mar 24, 10:47 am)
Re: [RFC] Unify KVM kernel-space and user-space code into ..., Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo, (Wed Mar 24, 11:27 am)