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Hi All, with out-of-tree kernel modules we (users and linux distributions) have a problem - with every frequent kernel release we need to rebuild them all due to vermagic and possible abi changes. this leads to lot of useless work (bumping rpm specs releases, preparing rpm packages and so on). naturally we could workaround the modprobe vermagic errors but we currently can't detect the big-bang kernel abi changes. e.g., some kernel function changes its parameter list while the exported function(symbol) name still staying unchanged. finally we get a modprobe-big-bang. in fact, we can't use a c++ symbol name mangling to avoid such problems but kernel build system could use a linker script to versioning symbols (like glibc/libgcc). during the abi change, kernel developers could just bump the symbol version and external modules could be refused during loading with 'unresolved symbol' error which is imho much better solution that an oops. is it acceptable and possible to introducing such solution? thanks for comments. BR, pawel. --
"we" aka the idiots that use out of tree modules on production systems. Just stop doing that, and your problem is solved. --
s/solved/transformed into an even harder one/ Before throwing out something used on production systems you have to have a working replacement solution. Yes, I know, people are working on that, but "being worked on" !=3D "working". HTH T. --=20 Tilman Schmidt E-Mail: tilman@imap.cc Bonn, Germany Diese Nachricht besteht zu 100% aus wiederverwerteten Bits. Unge=F6ffnet mindestens haltbar bis: (siehe R=FCckseite)
So kernel developers should waste time thinking if some change will result in some innumerable junk being broken, resulting in symbol No. Don't even bother. --
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:07:59 +0200 if it were up to me we would remove modversions from the kernel and just hard require an exact build of the module to the kernel; anything else is .. at best an educated wild guess. -- Arjan van de Ven Intel Open Source Technology Centre For development, discussion and tips for power savings, visit http://www.lesswatts.org --
"we" are working hard to remove any and all barriers for modules to be out-of-tree. See the recent drivers/staging/ announcement, I can now take pretty much any code that at least builds and works for someone, and get it into the kernel tree where it can be properly cleaned up and cared for over time before it moves to the "correct" location within the kernel. What kernel modules do you currently use/rely on that are not in the main kernel tree? Do you have links to them? I'd be glad to add them. thanks, greg k-h --
here's a quick list: - http://www.lirc.org - http://sourceforge.net/projects/bluetooth-alsa - http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com - http://www.unav-micro.com/Drivers.aspx -> AR81Family-linux-v1.0.1.0.tar.gz (e.g. asus-p5q-pro m/b has such ethernet port, pciid=1969:1026) - http://aufs.sourceforge.net - http://linux-uvc.berlios.de - http://www.misdn.org - toshiba bluetooth module [http://0bits.com/toshbt/toshbt-1.0.tar.gz] - zaptel telephony driver [http://www.asterisk.org] with firmware [http://downloads.digium.com/pub/telephony/firmware/releases] --
^^^^ People are taking steps to adapt this to be included in kernel. See http://lwn.net/Articles/297770/ . I could have sworn I saw someone posting an input layer patch for lirc the other day too... Aha - Isn't this one already in the wireless tree? I believe it was merged in 2.6.24 - http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_24#head-62e9ebf067c978bbf70898986c0aa3904d1a3543 I've read rumblings about one of the stacking FSes being merged but thus USB video has already been merged into mainline in 2.6.25 - http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_26#head-6d4ee1ddea983f5c8ac491b8685a94ea6fa4132b ! I'm using it on my eeepc... Those are the ones I recognise off the top of my head. I'll have to search with regard to the other ones you mentioned... -- Sitsofe | http://sucs.org/~sits/ --
> - http://sourceforge.net/projects/bluetooth-alsa Allegedly deprecated in favour of a userspace ALSA plugin: http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-devel@lists.debian.org/msg253253.html > - http://www.unav-micro.com/Drivers.aspx -> AR81Family-linux-v1.0.1.0.tar.gz > (e.g. asus-p5q-pro m/b has such ethernet port, pciid=1969:1026) Isn't this the atl1e gigabit ethernet driver? Isn't this being merged into 2.6.27? - http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=a6a5325239... > - http://www.misdn.org Isn't this going into 2.6.27? - http://lwn.net/Articles/291630/ > - zaptel telephony driver [http://www.asterisk.org] > with firmware [http://downloads.digium.com/pub/telephony/firmware/releases] Renamed to DAHDI and developers apparently don't want it merged into mainline - http://driverdev.linuxdriverproject.org/pipermail/devel/2008-June/000475.html . > - toshiba bluetooth module [http://0bits.com/toshbt/toshbt-1.0.tar.gz] I can't reach that URI on 0bits.com at the moment but a cached page linking to it says the following: "I was fedup patching the kernel everytime i needed this bluetooth enabled on my Tecra M2, so since we can use modules, i modularised the necessary bits to make the bluetooth enabling independent of kernel. Here it is in all it's glory." I'm not sure what the state of that one is or what issue it is working around... -- Sitsofe | http://sucs.org/~sits/ --
I think Sitsofe has answered all of these links as to if they are already merged, working on being merged, or refuse to be merged (like zaptel.) Are there any other out-of-tree modules that I need to be aware of to help integrate? If not, then there really isn't an issue here, right? :) thanks, greg k-h --
could you look at these: - http://www.tahoe.pl/eng/patch.php - ftp://distfiles.pld-linux.org/distfiles/by-md5/8/e/8e4764f6c438427b00fb9aa93abb3cd7/to... thanks, pawel. --
This looks almost sane, I'll suck it in and contact the author. It does look like they are suggesting that a core network change is also needed, This is a bit odder, but might just be needed for one brand of laptop. I'll ask to find out, at the least it needs to be changed to not use /proc/ anymore, which is easily done. thanks for the pointers, if anyone has any others, please let me know. greg k-h --
- http://download.avm.de/cardware/fritzwlanusb.stick/linux/ - http://acx100.sourceforge.net/ Thanks, Tilman --=20 Tilman Schmidt E-Mail: tilman@imap.cc Bonn, Germany Diese Nachricht besteht zu 100% aus wiederverwerteten Bits. Unge=C3=B6ffnet mindestens haltbar bis: (siehe R=C3=BCckseite)
-- Arkadiusz Miśkiewicz PLD/Linux Team arekm / maven.pl http://ftp.pld-linux.org/ --
apparmor requires patches to core parts of the kernel in order for it to work. This is for stand-alone drivers/filesystems/whatever only. thanks, greg k-h --