Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta.

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Cc: Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...>, Eric Paris <eparis@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <malware-list@...>, <andi@...>, <riel@...>, <greg@...>, <tytso@...>, <viro@...>, <alan@...>, <peterz@...>, <hch@...>

Subject: Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta.

Date: Monday, August 18, 2008 - 9:30 am

Hi!

quoted text> >How does it work? Memory can still change after mmap; 
> >scanning at the
> >mmap time is _NOT_ enough.
> >
> >You could do 'when app attempts to dirty memory, 
> >synchronously unmap
> >it from all apps that have it mapped' and then do sync 
> >scan on
> >pagefault time; but that sounds impractical.
> 
> what is the threat you are trying to defend against?
> 
> for some threats you are right, for others the scan at 
> mmap time is enough.

I don't see any threats when check at mmap time is okay.

As soon as file servers use mmap, this race can bite you even in very
simple 'make sure Linux fileserver does not pass on windows malwar'
threat model.
							Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
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Messages in current thread:

TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 12:36 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., 7v5w7go9ub0o, (Wed Aug 13, 8:14 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., 7v5w7go9ub0o, (Wed Aug 13, 10:25 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Andi Kleen, (Wed Aug 13, 2:17 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Mihai , (Wed Aug 13, 8:18 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Thu Aug 14, 7:58 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Mihai , (Thu Aug 14, 8:34 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 2:40 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., H. Peter Anvin, (Wed Aug 13, 2:21 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 2:24 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 1:39 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 12:06 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 8:21 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Mon Aug 18, 9:30 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 8:03 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 9:31 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 2:57 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 5:46 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 9:37 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 9:46 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 5:39 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 10:12 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Fri Aug 15, 6:07 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 6:44 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Peter Zijlstra, (Fri Aug 15, 6:37 am)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 9:10 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Mon Aug 18, 6:02 am)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 12:25 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 12:30 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:33 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 1:40 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:47 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 2:17 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 4:08 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 2:06 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Fri Aug 15, 4:17 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 4:05 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 9:18 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Fri Aug 15, 1:04 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 2:09 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Mon Aug 18, 6:09 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 6:25 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Peter Zijlstra, (Mon Aug 18, 6:14 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 6:24 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 11:57 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Wed Aug 13, 2:15 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 3:02 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Wed Aug 13, 3:29 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 5:30 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 9:24 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 9:48 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 11:50 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 10:37 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 1:29 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 3:17 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Thu Aug 14, 3:34 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 3:41 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 9:44 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 10:04 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Fri Aug 15, 4:51 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 12:48 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 11:41 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:05 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:36 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Johannes Weiner, (Fri Aug 15, 1:12 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:28 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Thu Aug 14, 4:20 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., J. Bruce Fields, (Thu Aug 14, 5:21 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 7:34 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., J. Bruce Fields, (Tue Aug 19, 5:43 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 3:20 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Thu Aug 14, 8:03 am)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 8:27 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 10:31 am)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Wed Aug 13, 5:15 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 2:21 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 5:18 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Greg KH, (Wed Aug 13, 12:57 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 12:24 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arnd Bergmann, (Thu Aug 14, 9:00 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Wed Aug 13, 1:07 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 12:47 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 12:37 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 1:00 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 3:59 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Wed Aug 13, 5:24 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Rik van Riel, (Wed Aug 13, 5:35 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Jan Harkes, (Fri Aug 15, 4:16 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Fri Aug 15, 6:05 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Sun Aug 17, 7:19 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Mon Aug 18, 11:33 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Rik van Riel, (Mon Aug 18, 12:43 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 17, 7:26 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., David Collier-Brown, (Sun Aug 17, 5:11 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 5:23 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 11:25 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 5:13 pm)

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