RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta.

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From: Press, Jonathan <Jonathan.Press@...>

To: <david@...>

Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...>, Helge Hafting <helge.hafting@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <malware-list@...>, <hch@...>, <andi@...>, <viro@...>, <alan@...>, Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...>

Subject: RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta.

Date: Friday, August 15, 2008 - 1:40 pm

> -----Original Message-----
quoted text> From: david@lang.hm [mailto:david@lang.hm]
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:33 PM
> To: Press, Jonathan
> Cc: Peter Zijlstra; Helge Hafting; linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org;
malware-
quoted text> list@lists.printk.net; hch@infradead.org; andi@firstfloor.org;
> viro@ZenIV.linux.org.uk; alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk; Arjan van de Ven
> Subject: RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta.
> 
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Press, Jonathan wrote:
> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: david@lang.hm [mailto:david@lang.hm]
> >>> The problem is that you have to account for the cases where the
malware
quoted text> >>> made it onto the system even if you were trying to catch it ahead
of
quoted text> >>> time.  For example:
> >>>
> >>> - Administrator turns off or reduces AV protection for some reason
for
quoted text> >>> some period of time.  It happens all the time.
> >>
> >> according to the threat model actions of the administrator do not
matter.
quoted text> >
> > Sorry, I don't know what you mean.
> 
> the threat model that was posted two days ago in the initial message
of
quoted text> this thread specificly stated that actions of root are not something
that
quoted text> this is trying to defend against.

I think you may have missed the point of any such statement.

Just to clarify...

The model does not exclude root-owned processes from the notification
and scanning sequence.  If root attempts to execute a file, that file
would be scanned before the execution is allowed.  If a root-owned
process attempts to open a file, that access would be blocked until the
file is scanned.  If a root-owned process closes a file that has been
written to, that file would be scanned.

In addition, to generalize from the incorrect idea that the actions of
root are not being defended against to the idea that the possible
impacts of an administrator's actions in configuring an application
should not be accounted for at all in our thinking doesn't make sense to
me anyway.

Jon Press

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Messages in current thread:

TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 12:36 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., 7v5w7go9ub0o, (Wed Aug 13, 8:14 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., 7v5w7go9ub0o, (Wed Aug 13, 10:25 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Andi Kleen, (Wed Aug 13, 2:17 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Mihai , (Wed Aug 13, 8:18 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Thu Aug 14, 7:58 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Mihai , (Thu Aug 14, 8:34 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 2:40 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., H. Peter Anvin, (Wed Aug 13, 2:21 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 2:24 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 1:39 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 12:06 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 8:21 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Mon Aug 18, 9:30 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 8:03 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 9:31 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 2:57 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 5:46 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 9:37 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 9:46 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 5:39 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 10:12 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Fri Aug 15, 6:07 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 6:44 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Peter Zijlstra, (Fri Aug 15, 6:37 am)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 9:10 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Mon Aug 18, 6:02 am)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 12:25 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 12:30 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:33 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 1:40 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:47 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 2:17 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 4:08 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 2:06 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Fri Aug 15, 4:17 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 4:05 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 9:18 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Fri Aug 15, 1:04 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 2:09 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Mon Aug 18, 6:09 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 6:25 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Peter Zijlstra, (Mon Aug 18, 6:14 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 6:24 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 11:57 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Wed Aug 13, 2:15 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 3:02 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Wed Aug 13, 3:29 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 5:30 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 9:24 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 9:48 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 11:50 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 10:37 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 1:29 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 3:17 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Thu Aug 14, 3:34 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 3:41 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 9:44 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 10:04 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Fri Aug 15, 4:51 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 12:48 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 11:41 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:05 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:36 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Johannes Weiner, (Fri Aug 15, 1:12 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:28 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Thu Aug 14, 4:20 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., J. Bruce Fields, (Thu Aug 14, 5:21 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 7:34 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., J. Bruce Fields, (Tue Aug 19, 5:43 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 3:20 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Thu Aug 14, 8:03 am)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 8:27 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 10:31 am)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Wed Aug 13, 5:15 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 2:21 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 5:18 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Greg KH, (Wed Aug 13, 12:57 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 12:24 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arnd Bergmann, (Thu Aug 14, 9:00 am)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Wed Aug 13, 1:07 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 12:47 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 12:37 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 1:00 pm)

Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 3:59 pm)

RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Wed Aug 13, 5:24 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Rik van Riel, (Wed Aug 13, 5:35 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Jan Harkes, (Fri Aug 15, 4:16 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Fri Aug 15, 6:05 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Sun Aug 17, 7:19 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Mon Aug 18, 11:33 am)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Rik van Riel, (Mon Aug 18, 12:43 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 17, 7:26 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., David Collier-Brown, (Sun Aug 17, 5:11 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 5:23 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 11:25 pm)

Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 5:13 pm)

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