Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta.

!MAILaRCHIVE_VOTE_RePLACE
Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]
To: Eric Paris <eparis@...>
Cc: <tvrtko.ursulin@...>, <alan@...>, <andi@...>, Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...>, <hch@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <malware-list@...>, <malware-list-bounces@...>, <peterz@...>, <viro@...>
Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 11:50 am

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 09:48:33AM -0400, Eric Paris wrote:

"Infected" just means to instantly return an error when the file is
opened or if an already opened file descriptor is read or mmap'ed,
right?  If file is already mmaped(), what's the plan?  Send a kill -9
to the process, even if it ends up kill off an emacs or openoffice
process?


If a userspace database knows that inode X, i_version Y was checked a
day ago, and inode X still has i_version Y, even if that inode has
been evicted from memory, the contents will be the same absent root
messing about with direct access to the block device.  If there was an
intervening boot, the someone could remove the disk, edit the disk
block directly -- but that person could also add a backdoor to the
kernel while they were at it.

If your threat model is, "we do file scanning; that's it", then having
an external database which uses the inode number and i_version as a
tuple makes a lot of sense --- for filesystems where i_version is
getting bumped on every disk write, which is needed to support NFSv4
cache support, anyway.  

							- Ted

--
Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]

Messages in current thread:
TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 12:36 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., 7v5w7go9ub0o, (Wed Aug 13, 8:14 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., 7v5w7go9ub0o, (Wed Aug 13, 10:25 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Andi Kleen, (Wed Aug 13, 2:17 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Mihai , (Wed Aug 13, 8:18 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Thu Aug 14, 7:58 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 2:40 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., H. Peter Anvin, (Wed Aug 13, 2:21 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 2:24 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 1:39 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 12:06 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Mon Aug 18, 9:30 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 2:57 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 9:46 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 5:39 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 10:12 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Fri Aug 15, 6:07 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Peter Zijlstra, (Fri Aug 15, 6:37 am)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 9:10 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Mon Aug 18, 6:02 am)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 12:30 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 1:40 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 2:17 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Fri Aug 15, 4:17 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Fri Aug 15, 1:04 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 2:09 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Mon Aug 18, 6:09 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Peter Zijlstra, (Mon Aug 18, 6:14 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 11:57 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Wed Aug 13, 2:15 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 3:02 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Wed Aug 13, 3:29 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 9:24 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 11:50 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 10:37 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 3:17 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Thu Aug 14, 3:34 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 3:41 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 10:04 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 11:41 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Johannes Weiner, (Fri Aug 15, 1:12 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Thu Aug 14, 4:20 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., J. Bruce Fields, (Thu Aug 14, 5:21 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 7:34 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., J. Bruce Fields, (Tue Aug 19, 5:43 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Thu Aug 14, 8:03 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 10:31 am)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Wed Aug 13, 5:15 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 2:21 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Greg KH, (Wed Aug 13, 12:57 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 12:24 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arnd Bergmann, (Thu Aug 14, 9:00 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Wed Aug 13, 1:07 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 12:47 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 12:37 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 1:00 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 3:59 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Wed Aug 13, 5:24 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Rik van Riel, (Wed Aug 13, 5:35 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Fri Aug 15, 6:05 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Rik van Riel, (Mon Aug 18, 12:43 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 17, 7:26 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., David Collier-Brown, (Sun Aug 17, 5:11 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 11:25 pm)