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Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta.

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From: Alan Cox <alan@...>
To: Eric Paris <eparis@...>
Cc: <linux-kernel@...>, <malware-list@...>, <andi@...>, <riel@...>, <greg@...>, <tytso@...>, <viro@...>, <arjan@...>, <peterz@...>, <hch@...>
Subject: Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta.
Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 3:59 pm

> > I don't think you need to be blocking if you passed up a file handle ?

Denying access is easy enough - chmod it or set an SELinux label on it.

There are a limited number of useful arrangements I can see here

'opened for write deny [some set of] access until verified'

Thats an selinux state transition on open for write, and one from the
user space end on the other

'run around after things'

Which is simply a notifier and a relabel as 'contaminated' or similar (or
a chmod or mv ...) by the daemon end of things.

Now I can see why you might want a 'has been open for a write and dirty
for a while' notifier - again for indexing as well as virus scanners and
the like.

What other semantic do you have in mind given that you have to deal with
open by me, open by writer, content modified.. after I have it open
anyway ? It seems the rest is a discussion about time intervals ?
--
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Messages in current thread:
TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 12:36 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., 7v5w7go9ub0o, (Wed Aug 13, 8:14 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., 7v5w7go9ub0o, (Wed Aug 13, 10:25 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Andi Kleen, (Wed Aug 13, 2:17 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Mihai , (Wed Aug 13, 8:18 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Thu Aug 14, 7:58 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Mihai , (Thu Aug 14, 8:34 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 2:40 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., H. Peter Anvin, (Wed Aug 13, 2:21 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 2:24 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 1:39 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 12:06 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 8:21 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Mon Aug 18, 9:30 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 8:03 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 9:31 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 2:57 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 5:46 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 9:37 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 9:46 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 5:39 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 10:12 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Fri Aug 15, 6:07 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 6:44 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Peter Zijlstra, (Fri Aug 15, 6:37 am)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 9:10 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Mon Aug 18, 6:02 am)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 12:25 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 12:30 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:33 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 1:40 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:47 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 2:17 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 4:08 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 2:06 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Fri Aug 15, 4:17 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 4:05 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 9:18 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Fri Aug 15, 1:04 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Fri Aug 15, 2:09 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Helge Hafting, (Mon Aug 18, 6:09 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 6:25 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Peter Zijlstra, (Mon Aug 18, 6:14 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Mon Aug 18, 6:24 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 11:57 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Wed Aug 13, 2:15 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 3:02 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Wed Aug 13, 3:29 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 5:30 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 9:24 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 9:48 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 11:50 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 10:37 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 1:29 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 3:17 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Thu Aug 14, 3:34 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 3:41 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 9:44 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 10:04 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Fri Aug 15, 4:51 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 12:48 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Thu Aug 14, 11:41 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:05 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:36 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Johannes Weiner, (Fri Aug 15, 1:12 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Fri Aug 15, 1:28 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Thu Aug 14, 4:20 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., J. Bruce Fields, (Thu Aug 14, 5:21 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Theodore Tso, (Thu Aug 14, 7:34 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., J. Bruce Fields, (Tue Aug 19, 5:43 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 3:20 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Thu Aug 14, 8:03 am)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 8:27 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Pavel Machek, (Fri Aug 15, 10:31 am)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Wed Aug 13, 5:15 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Aug 13, 2:21 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., , (Thu Aug 14, 5:18 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Greg KH, (Wed Aug 13, 12:57 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 12:24 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arnd Bergmann, (Thu Aug 14, 9:00 am)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Christoph Hellwig, (Wed Aug 13, 1:07 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 12:47 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 12:37 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Wed Aug 13, 1:00 pm)
Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 3:59 pm)
RE: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Press, Jonathan, (Wed Aug 13, 5:24 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Rik van Riel, (Wed Aug 13, 5:35 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Jan Harkes, (Fri Aug 15, 4:16 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Fri Aug 15, 6:05 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Sun Aug 17, 7:19 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Mon Aug 18, 11:33 am)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Rik van Riel, (Mon Aug 18, 12:43 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Aug 17, 7:26 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., David Collier-Brown, (Sun Aug 17, 5:11 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 5:23 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Eric Paris, (Thu Aug 14, 11:25 pm)
Re: [malware-list] TALPA - a threat model? well sorta., Alan Cox, (Wed Aug 13, 5:13 pm)