Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1

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To: Jesse Barnes <jbarnes@...>
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...>, Stephen Rothwell <sfr@...>
Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 12:59 pm

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008, Jesse Barnes wrote:

I don't think anybody wants it to go away. The question in my mind is more 
along the way of how/whether it should be changed. There was some 
bickering about patches that weren't there, and some about how _partial_ 
series were there but then the finishing touches broke things.

I don't personally really think that it's reasonable to expect everything 
to be in -next (but hey, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise). And don't 
get me wrong - it certainly wouldn't bother _me_ to have everything go 
through next, since it just makes it likelier that I have less to worry 
about.

BUT. I do think 'next' as it is has a few issues that either need to be 
fixed (unlikely - it's not the point of next) or just need to be aired as 
issues and understood:

 - I don't think it does 'quality control', and I think that's pretty 
   fundamental.

   Now, admittedly I don't look much at the patches of people I trust 
   either (that's what the whole point of that 'trust' is, after all - to 
   make me not be the part that limits development speed), but that's 
   still different from 'largely automated merging'.

   So I _do_ check the things that aren't obvious "maintainer works on his 
   own subsystem" or are so core that I really feel like I need to know 
   what's up. I seldom actually say "that's so broken that I refuse to 
   pull it", but I tend to do that a couple of times per release.

   That may not sound like much, but it's enough to make me worry about 
   'next'. I worry that 'it has been in next' has become a code-word for 
   "pull this, because it's good", and I'm not at all convinced that 
   'next' sees any real critical checking.

 - I don't think the 'next' thing works as well for the occasional 
   developer that just has a few patches pending as it works for subsystem 
   maintainers that are used to it.

   IOW, I think 'next' needs enough infrastructure setup from the 
   developer side that I don't think it's reasonable for _everything_ to 
   go through next. And that in turn means that I'm not entirely thrilled 
   when people then complain "that wasn't in next". I think people should 
   accept that not everything will be in next.

But I don't think either of the above issues is a 'problem' - I just think 
they should be acknowledged. I think 'next' is a good way for the big 
subsystem developers to be able to see problems early, but I really hope 
that nobody will _ever_ see next as a "that's the way into Linus' tree", 
because for the above two reasons I do not think it can really work that 
way.

			Linus
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Messages in current thread:
Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jul 28, 11:23 pm)
Linux v2.6.27-rc1: fails to compile, Grant Coady, (Tue Jul 29, 6:03 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1: fails to compile, Frederik Deweerdt, (Tue Jul 29, 6:40 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1: fails to compile, Grant Coady, (Tue Jul 29, 7:46 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Sam Ravnborg, (Tue Jul 29, 5:37 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Jul 29, 5:42 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Sam Ravnborg, (Tue Jul 29, 5:59 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Jul 29, 6:03 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Sam Ravnborg, (Tue Jul 29, 6:30 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1: problem with firmware stuff, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Tue Jul 29, 4:49 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1: problem with firmware stuff, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Tue Jul 29, 5:01 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1: problem with firmware stuff, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Jul 29, 5:01 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1: problem with firmware stuff, David Woodhouse, (Tue Jul 29, 6:26 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Jesse Barnes, (Tue Jul 29, 12:27 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Jul 29, 12:59 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Andrew Morton, (Wed Jul 30, 5:03 am)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1: linux-next, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Jul 31, 6:22 pm)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Roland Dreier, (Tue Jul 29, 1:31 pm)
Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Alistair John Strachan, (Tue Jul 29, 9:57 am)
Re: Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Pekka Paalanen, (Tue Jul 29, 12:22 pm)
Re: Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Alistair John Strachan, (Tue Jul 29, 12:50 pm)
Re: Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Dmitry Adamushko, (Wed Jul 30, 5:07 am)
Re: Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Dmitry Adamushko, (Wed Jul 30, 6:35 am)
Re: Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jul 31, 12:56 pm)
Re: Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Dmitry Adamushko, (Thu Jul 31, 3:52 pm)
Re: Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Dmitry Adamushko, (Thu Jul 31, 3:55 pm)
Re: Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Alistair John Strachan, (Thu Jul 31, 8:49 am)
Re: Oops in microcode sysfs registration,, Peter Oruba, (Wed Jul 30, 9:28 am)
2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Alistair John Strachan, (Tue Jul 29, 5:49 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Johannes Berg, (Tue Jul 29, 6:09 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Theodore Tso, (Tue Jul 29, 8:04 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Johannes Berg, (Tue Jul 29, 8:09 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Johannes Berg, (Tue Jul 29, 8:15 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, John W. Linville, (Tue Jul 29, 1:52 pm)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, David Miller, (Wed Jul 30, 12:48 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Theodore Tso, (Tue Jul 29, 11:18 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Alistair John Strachan, (Tue Jul 29, 7:25 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Johannes Berg, (Tue Jul 29, 7:26 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Alistair John Strachan, (Tue Jul 29, 7:55 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Kalle Valo, (Tue Jul 29, 7:46 am)
Re: 2.6.27-rc1: zd1211rw association fails, Hugh Dickins, (Tue Jul 29, 7:37 am)
Re: Linux v2.6.27-rc1, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jul 29, 12:01 am)