Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue

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To: Haavard Skinnemoen <haavard.skinnemoen@...>
Cc: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...>, <benh@...>, Matthew Wilcox <matthew@...>, David Miller <davem@...>, <linux-arch@...>, <scottwood@...>, <linuxppc-dev@...>, <alan@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <tpiepho@...>
Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 - 11:31 am

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008, Haavard Skinnemoen wrote:

Indeed. *Especially* as the driver in practice tends to always know which 
one it is statically.

Yes, sometimes the same RTL may end up being used behind two differnt 
buses, and with some broken byte-conversion hardware in the middle, but 
that's pretty damn rare in the end. It happens, but it happens mostly with 
the odd broken kind of embedded setups where somebody took a standard part 
and then did something _strange_ to it - and in the process they may well 
have introduced other issues as well.

I suspect you find this kind of thing mostly with things like stupid 
integrated IDE controllers, and things like byte order tends to be the 
_least_ of the issues (specialized register accesses with odd offsets etc 
will happen).

So most of the time the byte order is simply decided by the hardware 
itself (and LE is the common one, due to ISA/PCI). Sometimes you can set 
it dynamically (at which point it's irrelevant - just pick the one you 
want).

So I definitely argue against complex IO accessor functions with things 
like dynamic support for byte order depending on bus. 99.9% of all 
hardware simply do not need them, and the small percentage that might need 
it will need special drivers anyway, so they might as well do the 
complexity on their own rather than make everybody else care.

See for example the input driver for the i8042 chip: not only do those 
things sometimes need native order (probably exactly because it's 
integrated on a chip over some special "native bus", or just wired up to 
be big-endian on a BE platform by some moron), but you'll also find that 
they just need odd accesses anyway exactly because it's oddly wired up 
(eg it's some special serial protocol that emulates ISA accesses).

So having some "byte-order correcting function" still wouldn't make any 
sense, because it's not just about byte order.

Will that mean that you might occasionally have a "normal" driver and an 
"odd" driver that actually drives what is basically the same HW block, 
just wired up differently? Sure. But that's still a smaller price to pay 
than it would be to try to make everything be "generic" when there is no 
point to it.

			Linus
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[PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Trent Piepho, (Tue May 20, 4:40 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Andreas Schwab, (Tue May 20, 6:00 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Trent Piepho, (Tue May 20, 6:11 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Andreas Schwab, (Tue May 20, 6:47 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Trent Piepho, (Tue May 20, 7:14 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Andreas Schwab, (Wed May 21, 4:03 am)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Trent Piepho, (Wed May 21, 4:25 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 20, 5:16 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Trent Piepho, (Tue May 20, 6:00 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Wed May 21, 10:00 am)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Trent Piepho, (Wed May 21, 3:44 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Wed May 21, 4:41 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Trent Piepho, (Tue May 20, 6:55 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Wed May 21, 10:01 am)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, David Miller, (Tue May 20, 6:39 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, David Miller, (Tue May 20, 6:53 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Fri May 23, 12:24 am)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Trent Piepho, (Thu May 22, 6:56 pm)
MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Mon May 26, 9:33 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jonathan Corbet, (Tue May 27, 11:28 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, David Miller, (Mon May 26, 9:40 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Mon May 26, 10:15 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, David Miller, (Mon May 26, 10:28 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Alan Cox, (Tue May 27, 4:24 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon May 26, 11:42 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 27, 3:08 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Tue May 27, 11:50 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Pavel Machek, (Sat May 31, 4:04 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 27, 5:11 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Tue May 27, 5:33 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jes Sorensen, (Thu May 29, 10:47 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jeremy Higdon, (Sat May 31, 3:52 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jes Sorensen, (Mon Jun 2, 5:56 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 3, 12:33 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jesse Barnes, (Tue Jun 3, 12:52 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jes Sorensen, (Thu Jun 5, 4:40 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Thu Jun 5, 4:43 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Matthew Wilcox, (Thu Jun 12, 11:07 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Thu Jun 12, 8:07 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jeremy Higdon, (Tue Jun 3, 4:15 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 3, 4:19 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jeremy Higdon, (Tue Jun 3, 4:45 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jeremy Higdon, (Mon Jun 2, 5:02 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Thu May 29, 6:06 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Thu May 29, 6:25 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Paul Mackerras, (Thu May 29, 11:56 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Thu May 29, 5:40 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jes Sorensen, (Fri May 30, 5:48 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Pavel Machek, (Sat May 31, 4:14 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jes Sorensen, (Mon Jun 2, 5:48 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jesse Barnes, (Thu May 29, 5:53 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jes Sorensen, (Fri May 30, 5:39 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Thu May 29, 5:48 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Thu May 29, 6:05 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Thu May 29, 9:53 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, James Bottomley, (Thu May 29, 11:01 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jes Sorensen, (Fri May 30, 5:36 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jesse Barnes, (Fri May 30, 1:21 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jeremy Higdon, (Sat May 31, 3:57 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 27, 6:13 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Tue May 27, 6:39 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, James Bottomley, (Tue May 27, 12:37 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Tue May 27, 1:38 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, James Bottomley, (Tue May 27, 1:53 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Tue May 27, 2:07 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Chris Friesen, (Tue May 27, 5:23 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Paul Mackerras, (Tue May 27, 7:04 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Tue May 27, 5:29 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Tue May 27, 2:17 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Tue May 27, 12:08 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Arjan van de Ven, (Tue May 27, 12:20 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Mon May 26, 11:39 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue May 27, 11:35 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 27, 5:10 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue May 27, 5:30 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Alan Cox, (Tue May 27, 5:38 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue May 27, 5:59 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Matthew Wilcox, (Tue May 27, 5:53 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue May 27, 6:02 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Alan Cox, (Tue May 27, 5:46 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 27, 5:38 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue May 27, 5:55 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Russell King, (Mon Jun 2, 3:24 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 3, 12:16 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Tue Jun 3, 3:43 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue Jun 3, 6:26 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Matthew Wilcox, (Tue Jun 3, 5:33 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Tue Jun 3, 5:44 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 3, 10:25 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Wed Jun 4, 2:39 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Jun 3, 10:47 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 3, 10:19 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Tue Jun 3, 2:47 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Jun 3, 3:07 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 10, 2:56 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Paul Mackerras, (Wed Jun 11, 1:20 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Paul Mackerras, (Wed Jun 11, 12:18 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Wed Jun 11, 1:00 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 11, 10:46 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Paul Mackerras, (Wed Jun 11, 1:13 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Wed Jun 11, 1:35 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Paul Mackerras, (Thu Jun 12, 8:14 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Thu Jun 12, 9:08 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Wed Jun 11, 2:02 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jesse Barnes, (Tue Jun 10, 1:41 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, James Bottomley, (Tue Jun 10, 2:10 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Roland Dreier, (Tue Jun 10, 3:05 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jesse Barnes, (Tue Jun 10, 3:19 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 10, 11:29 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Jesse Barnes, (Wed Jun 11, 12:07 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Thu Jun 12, 7:27 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue Jun 10, 11:40 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Wed Jun 11, 12:06 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 3, 10:05 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Jun 3, 10:46 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Alan Cox, (Wed Jun 4, 7:47 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Matthew Wilcox, (Tue Jun 3, 2:55 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Tue Jun 3, 3:57 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Matthew Wilcox, (Tue Jun 3, 5:35 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Tue Jun 3, 5:58 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 3, 10:00 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue Jun 3, 12:32 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 3, 2:11 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Paul Mackerras, (Tue Jun 3, 2:53 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 3, 3:18 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue Jun 3, 2:48 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 27, 6:19 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Arnd Bergmann, (Thu May 29, 3:10 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Alan Cox, (Thu May 29, 6:46 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Matthew Wilcox, (Tue May 27, 5:42 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 27, 6:17 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Haavard Skinnemoen, (Wed May 28, 4:36 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Thu May 29, 9:13 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Haavard Skinnemoen, (Fri May 30, 2:07 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Fri May 30, 3:24 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Haavard Skinnemoen, (Fri May 30, 4:27 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Geert Uytterhoeven, (Fri May 30, 5:22 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Haavard Skinnemoen, (Mon Jun 2, 4:11 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 4, 11:31 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Scott Wood, (Mon Jun 2, 11:48 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Haavard Skinnemoen, (Tue Jun 3, 3:46 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Pantelis Antoniou, (Thu May 29, 7:05 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Trent Piepho, (Tue May 27, 2:23 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Scott Wood, (Tue May 27, 2:33 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue May 27, 12:47 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 27, 5:12 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Linus Torvalds, (Tue May 27, 1:31 pm)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 2, 6:36 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Mon Jun 2, 5:53 pm)
MMIO and gcc re-ordering (Was: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in..., Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Fri May 23, 8:36 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering (Was: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve..., Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Fri May 23, 8:50 am)
Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering (Was: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve..., Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Fri May 23, 6:47 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Tue May 20, 6:02 pm)
Re: [PATCH] [POWERPC] Improve (in|out)_beXX() asm code, Trent Piepho, (Tue May 20, 6:21 pm)