Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes

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To: Eric Sandeen <sandeen@...>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@...>, <linux-ext4@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <linux-fsdevel@...>
Date: Friday, May 16, 2008 - 6:03 pm

Eric Sandeen wrote:

You have to pull the plug quite a lot, while there is data in write
cache, and when the data is something you will notice later.

Checking filesystem is hard.  Something systematic would be good - for
which you will want an electronically controlled power switch.

I have seen corruption which I believe is from lack of barriers, and
hasn't occurred since I implemented them (or disabled write cache).
But it's hard to be sure that was the real cause.

If you just want to test the block I/O layer and drive itself, don't
use the filesystem, but write a program which just access the block
device, continuously writing with/without barriers every so often, and
after power cycle read back to see what was and wasn't written.

I think there may be drives which won't show any effect - if they have
enough internal power (from platter inertia) to write everything in
the cache before losing it.

If you want to test, the worst case is to queue many small writes at
seek positions acrosss the disk, so that flushing the disk's write
cache takes the longest time.  A good pattern might be take numbers
0..2^N-1 (e.g. 0..255), for each number reverse the bit order (0, 128,
64, 192...) and do writes at those block positions, scaling up to the
range of the whole disk.  The idea is if the disk just caches the last
few queued, they will always be quite spread out.

However, a particular disk's cache algorithm may bound the write cache
size by predicted seek time needed to flush it, rather than bytes,
defeating that.


I agree.

The MacOS X folks decided that speed is most important for fsync().
fsync() does not guarantee commit to platter.  *But* they added an
fcntl() for applications to request a commit to platter, which SQLite
at least uses.  I don't know if MacOS X uses barriers for filesystem
operations.


SuSE did the same for 2.4: they patched the kernel to add barriers to
2.4.  (I'm using an improved version of that patch in my embedded
devices).  It's nice they haven't weakened the behavior in 2.6.


Neither did they patch for barriers in 2.4, but we can't hold that
against them :-)


Considering how many things depend on LVM not passing barriers, that
is scary.  People use software RAID assuming integrity.  They are
immune to many hardware faults.  But it turns out, on Linux, that a
single disk can have higher integrity against power failure than a
RAID.


So send the patch to fix LVM too :-)


Are they noticably slower than ext3?  If not, it suggests ext3 can be
fixed to keep its performance with barriers enabled.

Specifically: under some workloads, batching larger changes into the
journal between commit blocks might compensate.  Maybe the journal has
been tuned for barriers off because they are by default?


It would be fair.  I suspect a fair number of people are under the
impression ext3 uses barriers with no special options, prior to this
thread.  It was advertised as a feature in development during the 2.5
series.
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Messages in current thread:
[PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Eric Sandeen, (Fri May 16, 3:02 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Andrew Morton, (Fri May 16, 4:05 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Eric Sandeen, (Thu May 29, 9:36 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Pavel Machek, (Mon May 19, 5:04 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Andi Kleen, (Sun May 18, 3:54 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Mon May 19, 9:26 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 11:36 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Tue May 20, 12:02 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 12:27 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Tue May 20, 1:08 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 6:26 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Theodore Tso, (Mon May 19, 10:46 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Ric Wheeler, (Fri May 23, 2:33 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Fri May 16, 6:30 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Eric Sandeen, (Fri May 16, 4:53 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Fri May 16, 6:03 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Theodore Tso, (Sun May 18, 8:28 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 11:13 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Greg Smith, (Wed May 21, 4:25 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Eric Sandeen, (Fri May 16, 6:21 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Andi Kleen, (Sun May 18, 4:03 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Theodore Tso, (Sun May 18, 8:43 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Eric Sandeen, (Sun May 18, 10:29 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 7:35 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Andrew Morton, (Mon May 19, 12:11 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Mon May 19, 1:16 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Daniel Phillips, (Wed May 21, 6:30 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 10:58 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Mon May 19, 2:39 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Pavel Machek, (Wed May 21, 7:22 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Andrew Morton, (Wed May 21, 2:03 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Wed May 21, 3:54 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Theodore Tso, (Wed May 21, 2:29 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Wed May 21, 3:36 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Wed May 21, 3:40 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Andrew Morton, (Wed May 21, 2:49 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Wed May 21, 3:42 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Eric Sandeen, (Wed May 21, 2:15 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Wed May 21, 3:43 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Theodore Tso, (Wed May 21, 8:32 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jens Axboe, (Tue May 20, 4:25 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Tue May 20, 8:17 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jan Kara, (Mon May 19, 6:39 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Mon May 19, 8:29 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Timothy Shimmin, (Mon May 19, 11:29 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Tue May 20, 8:04 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Fri May 16, 6:53 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Theodore Tso, (Fri May 16, 8:20 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Andrew Morton, (Fri May 16, 8:35 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Chris Mason, (Sat May 17, 8:48 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 7:44 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Theodore Tso, (Sat May 17, 9:36 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Ric Wheeler, (Sun May 18, 10:49 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 7:48 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 10:42 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Theodore Tso, (Sat May 17, 9:43 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Theodore Tso, (Sat May 17, 4:44 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 10:45 am)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Andreas Dilger, (Sat May 17, 1:59 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Andrew Morton, (Fri May 16, 4:58 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Fri May 16, 5:45 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Eric Sandeen, (Fri May 16, 6:03 pm)
Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes, Jamie Lokier, (Fri May 16, 6:09 pm)
[PATCH 4/4] ext4: call blkdev_issue_flush on fsync, Eric Sandeen, (Fri May 16, 3:09 pm)
Re: [PATCH 4/4] ext4: call blkdev_issue_flush on fsync, Theodore Tso, (Mon May 19, 10:34 pm)
Re: [PATCH 4/4] ext4: call blkdev_issue_flush on fsync, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 11:43 am)
Re: [PATCH 4/4] ext4: call blkdev_issue_flush on fsync, Jamie Lokier, (Tue May 20, 6:02 pm)
Re: [PATCH 4/4] ext4: call blkdev_issue_flush on fsync, Eric Sandeen, (Tue May 20, 11:52 am)
[PATCH 3/4] ext4: enable barriers by default, Eric Sandeen, (Fri May 16, 3:08 pm)
[PATCH 2/4] ext3: call blkdev_issue_flush on fsync, Eric Sandeen, (Fri May 16, 3:07 pm)
Re: [PATCH 2/4] ext3: call blkdev_issue_flush on fsync, Jamie Lokier, (Fri May 16, 6:15 pm)
[PATCH 1/4] ext3: enable barriers by default, Eric Sandeen, (Fri May 16, 3:05 pm)
Re: [PATCH 1/4] ext3: enable barriers by default, Pavel Machek, (Mon May 19, 4:58 am)