Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!

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To: Adrian Bunk <bunk@...>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@...>, <rjw@...>, <davem@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <jirislaby@...>
Date: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:30 pm

On Thu, 1 May 2008, Adrian Bunk wrote:

Now, I do agree that we could/should have some more process in general. I 
really _would_ like to have a process in place that basically says:

 - everything must have gone through lkml at least once

 - after that point, it should have been in linux-next or the -mm queue

 - and then it can get merged (and if it didn't get any review by then, 
   maybe it was because nobody was interested, and it simply won't be 
   getting any until it oopses or catches peoples interest some other way)

HOWEVER.

That process doesn't actually work for everything anyway (a lot of trivial 
fixes are really best not being so noisy, and various patches that are 
specific to some subsystem really _are_ better off just discussed on that 
subsystem mailing lists).

And perhaps more pertinently, right now that kind of process is very 
inconvenient (to the point of effectively being impossible) for me to 
check. Obviously, if the patch comes from Andrew, I know it was in -mm, 
and I seldom drop those patches for obvious reasons anyway, but the last 
thing we want is some process that depends even _more_ on Andrew being a 
burnt-out-excuse-for-a-man in a few years (*).

So I could ask for people to always have pointers to "it was discussed 
here" on patches they send (and I'd likely mostly trust them without even 
bothering to verify), the same way -git maintainers often talk about "most 
of this has been in -mm for the last two months".

That might work. But then there would still be the patches that are 
obvious and don't need them.

And then even the obvious patches do break. And people will complain. Even 
though requiring that kind of process for the stupid stuff would just slow 
everybody down, and would be really painful.

So one of my _personal_ reasons I don't want to put too much process in 
place is that I don't think process is appropriate for everything, and yet 
even the stuff that obviously doesn't need or want process (speling fixes 
and build failures) _will_ cause problems, and then people will whine 
about them not being there.

			Linus

(*) Andrew, no offense. I'm sure you'd be a magnificent burnt-out-excuse- 
for-a-man.
--
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Messages in current thread:
Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Tue Apr 29, 10:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 3:36 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:15 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 4:31 pm)
RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 8:31 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 3:03 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 7:30 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 10:20 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 9:21 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Thu May 1, 10:08 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Josh Boyer, (Thu May 1, 11:10 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Fri May 2, 12:09 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 4:29 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Linus Torvalds, (Fri May 2, 10:58 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 2, 11:44 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Linus Torvalds, (Fri May 2, 12:28 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 2, 1:15 pm)
RE: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Pallipadi, Venkatesh, (Fri May 2, 2:02 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 9, 3:30 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Fri May 2, 6:16 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 7:58 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 11:49 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 9:13 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 5:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Theodore Tso, (Thu May 1, 1:24 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 3:26 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Steven Rostedt, (Thu May 1, 3:39 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Steven Rostedt, (Thu May 1, 12:38 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 1:18 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 8:53 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 4:13 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 10:15 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rene Herman, (Sun May 4, 8:45 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Pekka Enberg, (Sun May 4, 9:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rene Herman, (Sun May 4, 9:19 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, David Woodhouse, (Thu May 1, 8:42 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Benny Halevy, (Mon May 5, 6:03 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 11:02 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Enrico Weigelt, (Thu May 1, 6:30 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 9:02 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 8:41 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 9:23 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, H. Peter Anvin, (Wed Apr 30, 5:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 12:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bob Tracy, (Wed Apr 30, 11:24 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jiri Kosina, (Fri May 9, 5:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Fri May 9, 11:00 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 5:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:10 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jan Engelhardt, (Thu May 1, 2:15 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 7:04 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Kevin Winchester, (Thu May 1, 7:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 6:28 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Diego Calleja, (Thu May 1, 12:26 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stephen Rothwell, (Thu May 1, 9:48 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Thu May 1, 12:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jiri Slaby, (Wed Apr 30, 6:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 5:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Helge Hafting, (Fri May 2, 9:37 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 6:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rusty Russell, (Sun May 4, 11:04 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 6:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 6:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 10:48 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 9:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:49 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 6:22 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 6:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 7:12 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 8:15 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 1:09 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 6:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 6:02 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 5:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dan Noe, (Wed Apr 30, 4:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mariusz Kozlowski, (Wed Apr 30, 6:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andi Kleen, (Fri May 2, 6:20 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mariusz Kozlowski, (Fri May 2, 11:33 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 7:11 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ben Dooks, (Mon May 12, 5:27 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 5:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:08 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 5:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 4:05 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Paul Mackerras, (Wed Apr 30, 7:29 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 11:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Thu May 1, 12:17 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Alan Cox, (Thu May 1, 5:17 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 12:46 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Krzysztof Halasa, (Sun May 4, 9:47 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jacek Luczak, (Sun May 4, 11:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 30, 9:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Frans Pop, (Wed Apr 30, 10:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:45 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Thu May 1, 9:54 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 10:06 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 5:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 6:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 6:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:45 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 8:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 8:56 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 9:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 8:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 7:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 8:01 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 8:14 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 8:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Wed Apr 30, 9:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 6:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 7:20 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Wed Apr 30, 9:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 1:35 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 8:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 1:50 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 7:53 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 3:36 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz..., (Thu May 1, 9:16 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ray Lee, (Thu May 1, 11:29 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 3:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 9:53 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz..., (Thu May 1, 10:35 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Will Newton, (Thu May 1, 8:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 7:38 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 10:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 8:41 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 11:06 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Frans Pop, (Wed Apr 30, 11:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Nigel Cunningham, (Wed Apr 30, 10:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stephen Clark, (Thu May 1, 2:32 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Wed Apr 30, 10:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rene Herman, (Sat May 3, 11:26 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 1:19 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 9:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 10:01 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 10:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 9:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:43 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 6:59 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 11:26 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Frey, (Thu May 1, 2:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Enrico Weigelt, (Fri May 2, 9:22 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 1:09 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 1:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 5:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Fri May 2, 8:17 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Friedrich , (Thu May 1, 3:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 2:50 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 6:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 3:07 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 3:28 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 3:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 3:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Thu May 1, 2:11 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 2:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Thu May 1, 3:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Joel Becker, (Thu May 1, 4:07 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 3:58 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 2:58 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 2:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 7:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 7:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Thu May 1, 8:31 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Thu May 1, 11:34 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Fri May 2, 10:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 8:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Theodore Tso, (Wed Apr 30, 9:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 10:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 10:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Pavel Machek, (Wed May 14, 10:55 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 2:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 7:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 4:14 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Greg KH, (Wed Apr 30, 7:34 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:56 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:00 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:20 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Peter Teoh, (Wed Apr 30, 10:48 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 12:03 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Wed Apr 30, 3:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 9:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 10:41 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Apr 30, 9:38 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 12:18 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 9:04 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 10:51 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 2:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 2:27 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Friesen, (Wed Apr 30, 3:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 3:22 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 2:55 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:08 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 3:16 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Thu May 1, 12:31 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Kasper Sandberg, (Thu May 1, 11:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Lennart Sorensen, (Thu May 1, 9:49 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Thu May 1, 12:37 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Michael Kerrisk, (Wed Apr 30, 9:18 am)