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Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!

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To: Rafael J. Wysocki <rjw@...>
Cc: David Miller <davem@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, Andrew Morton <akpm@...>, Jiri Slaby <jirislaby@...>
Date: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 5:37 pm

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:

Oh, I agree. But at that point, the issue you brought up - of testing and 
then having the code change under you wildly - has at least gone away.

And I think you are missing a big issue:


From a testing standpoint, the *developers* aren't ever even the main 
issue. Yes, we get test coverage that way too, but we should really aim 
for getting most of the non-obvious issues from the user community, and 
not primarily from developers.

So the whole point of the merge window is *not* to have developers testing 
their code during the six subsequent weeks, but to have *users* able to 
use -rc1 and report issues!

That's why the distro "testing" trees are so important. And that's why 
it's so important that -rc1 be timely. 


I'm not following that logic. 

A single merge will bring in easily thousands of commits. It doesn't 
matter if the merge window is a day or a week or two weeks, the merge will 
be one event.

And there's no way to avoid the fact that during the merge window, we will 
get something on the order of ten thousand commits (eg 2.6.24->25-rc1 was 
9629 commits).

So your "fewer commits over a unit of time" doesn't make sense. We have 
those ten thousand commits. They need to go in. They cannot take forever. 
Ergo, you *will* have a thousand commits a day during the merge window.

We can spread it out a bit (and I do to some degree), but in many ways 
that is just going to be more painful. So it's actually easier if we can 
get about half of the merges done early, so that people like Andrew then 
has at least most of the base set for him by the first few days of the 
merge window.

So here's the math: 3,500 commits per month. That's just the *average* 
speed, it's sometimes more. And we *cannot* merge them continuously, 
because we need to have a stabler period for testing. And remember: those 
3,500 commits don't stop happening just because they aren't merged. You 
should think of them as a constant pressure.

So 3,500 commits per month, but with a stable period (that is *longer* 
than the merge window) that means that the merge window needs to merge 
that constant stream of commits *faster* than they happen, so that we can 
then have that breather when we try to get users to test it. Let's say 
that we have a 1:3 ratio (which is fairly close to what we have), and that 
means that we need to merge 3,500 commits in a week. 

That's just simple *math*. So when you say "let's make fewer commits over 
a unit of time" I can onyl shake my head and wonder what the hell you are 
talking about. The merge window _needs_ to do those 3,500 commits per 
week. Otherwise they don't get merged!

			Linus
--
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Messages in current thread:
Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Tue Apr 29, 10:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 3:36 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:15 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 4:31 pm)
RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 8:31 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 3:03 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 7:30 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 10:20 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 9:21 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Thu May 1, 10:08 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Josh Boyer, (Thu May 1, 11:10 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Fri May 2, 12:09 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 4:29 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Linus Torvalds, (Fri May 2, 10:58 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 2, 11:44 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Linus Torvalds, (Fri May 2, 12:28 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 2, 1:15 pm)
RE: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Pallipadi, Venkatesh, (Fri May 2, 2:02 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 9, 3:30 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Fri May 2, 6:16 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 7:58 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 11:49 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 9:13 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 5:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Theodore Tso, (Thu May 1, 1:24 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 3:26 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Steven Rostedt, (Thu May 1, 3:39 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Steven Rostedt, (Thu May 1, 12:38 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 1:18 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 8:53 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 4:13 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 10:15 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rene Herman, (Sun May 4, 8:45 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Pekka Enberg, (Sun May 4, 9:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rene Herman, (Sun May 4, 9:19 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, David Woodhouse, (Thu May 1, 8:42 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Benny Halevy, (Mon May 5, 6:03 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 11:02 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Enrico Weigelt, (Thu May 1, 6:30 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 9:02 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 8:41 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 9:23 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, H. Peter Anvin, (Wed Apr 30, 5:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 12:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bob Tracy, (Wed Apr 30, 11:24 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jiri Kosina, (Fri May 9, 5:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Fri May 9, 11:00 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 5:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:10 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jan Engelhardt, (Thu May 1, 2:15 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 7:04 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Kevin Winchester, (Thu May 1, 7:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 6:28 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Diego Calleja, (Thu May 1, 12:26 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stephen Rothwell, (Thu May 1, 9:48 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Thu May 1, 12:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jiri Slaby, (Wed Apr 30, 6:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 5:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Helge Hafting, (Fri May 2, 9:37 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 6:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rusty Russell, (Sun May 4, 11:04 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 6:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 6:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 10:48 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 9:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:49 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 6:22 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 6:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 7:12 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 8:15 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 1:09 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 6:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 6:02 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 5:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dan Noe, (Wed Apr 30, 4:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mariusz Kozlowski, (Wed Apr 30, 6:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andi Kleen, (Fri May 2, 6:20 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mariusz Kozlowski, (Fri May 2, 11:33 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 7:11 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ben Dooks, (Mon May 12, 5:27 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 5:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:08 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 5:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 4:05 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Paul Mackerras, (Wed Apr 30, 7:29 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 11:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Thu May 1, 12:17 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Alan Cox, (Thu May 1, 5:17 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 12:46 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Krzysztof Halasa, (Sun May 4, 9:47 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jacek Luczak, (Sun May 4, 11:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 30, 9:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Frans Pop, (Wed Apr 30, 10:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:45 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Thu May 1, 9:54 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 10:06 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 5:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 6:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 6:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:45 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 8:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 8:56 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 9:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 8:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 7:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 8:01 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 8:14 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 8:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Wed Apr 30, 9:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 6:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 7:20 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Wed Apr 30, 9:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 1:35 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 8:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 1:50 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 7:53 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 3:36 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz..., (Thu May 1, 9:16 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ray Lee, (Thu May 1, 11:29 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 3:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 9:53 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz..., (Thu May 1, 10:35 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Will Newton, (Thu May 1, 8:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 7:38 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 10:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 8:41 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 11:06 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Frans Pop, (Wed Apr 30, 11:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Nigel Cunningham, (Wed Apr 30, 10:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stephen Clark, (Thu May 1, 2:32 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Wed Apr 30, 10:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rene Herman, (Sat May 3, 11:26 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 1:19 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 9:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 10:01 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 10:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 9:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:43 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 6:59 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 11:26 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Frey, (Thu May 1, 2:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Enrico Weigelt, (Fri May 2, 9:22 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 1:09 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 1:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 5:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Fri May 2, 8:17 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Friedrich , (Thu May 1, 3:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 2:50 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 6:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 3:07 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 3:28 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Thu May 1, 3:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 3:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Thu May 1, 2:11 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 2:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Thu May 1, 3:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Joel Becker, (Thu May 1, 4:07 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 3:58 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 2:58 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 2:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 7:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 7:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Thu May 1, 8:31 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Thu May 1, 11:34 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Fri May 2, 10:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 8:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Theodore Tso, (Wed Apr 30, 9:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 10:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 10:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Pavel Machek, (Wed May 14, 10:55 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 2:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 7:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 7:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 4:14 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Greg KH, (Wed Apr 30, 7:34 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:56 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:00 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:20 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Peter Teoh, (Wed Apr 30, 10:48 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 12:03 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Wed Apr 30, 3:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 9:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, , (Wed Apr 30, 10:41 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Apr 30, 9:38 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 12:18 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 9:04 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 10:51 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 2:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 2:27 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Friesen, (Wed Apr 30, 3:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 3:22 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 2:55 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:08 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 3:16 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Thu May 1, 12:31 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Kasper Sandberg, (Thu May 1, 11:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Lennart Sorensen, (Thu May 1, 9:49 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Thu May 1, 12:37 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Michael Kerrisk, (Wed Apr 30, 9:18 am)
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