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Re: x86: 4kstacks default

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To: Willy Tarreau <w@...>
Cc: Mark Lord <lkml@...>, Adrian Bunk <bunk@...>, Alan Cox <alan@...>, Shawn Bohrer <shawn.bohrer@...>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...>, Andrew Morton <akpm@...>, Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...>, Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...>
Date: Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 10:19 am

Willy Tarreau wrote:

Only if you believe that 4K stack pages are a worthy goal.
As far as I can figure out they are not. They might have been
a worthy goal on crappy 2.4 VMs, but these times are long gone.

The "saving memory on embedded" argument also does not 
quite convince me, it is unclear if that is really
a significant amount of memory on these systems and if that 
couldn't be addressed better (e.g. in running generally
less kernel threads).  I don't have numbers on this,
but then the people who made this argument didn't have any
either :) 

If anybody has concrete statistics on this
(including other kernel memory users in realistic situations)
please feel free to post them.



The problem with his suggestion is that the lower 4K of the stack page 
are accessed in normal operation too because it contains the thread_struct.
That could be changed, but it would be a relatively large change
because you would need to audit/change a lot of code who assumes 
thread_struct and stack are continuous

If that was changed implementing Willy's suggestion would not be that 
difficult using cpa()  at the cost of some general slowdown in 
increased TLB misses and much higher thread creation/tear down cost etc, 
Using the alternative vmalloc way has also other issues.

But still the fundamental problem is that it would likely only
hit the interesting cases in real production setups and I don't 
think the production users would be very happy to slow down
their kernels and handle strange backtraces just to act as guinea pigs 
for something dubious

-Andi

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Messages in current thread:
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andrew Morton, (Fri Apr 18, 5:29 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Apr 19, 10:23 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Wed Apr 23, 1:27 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, David Chinner, (Wed Apr 23, 7:36 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Benjamin Herrenschmidt, (Wed Apr 23, 8:56 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 23, 8:45 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Christoph Hellwig, (Thu Apr 24, 5:52 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Chris Mason, (Thu Apr 24, 11:41 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Alexander van Heukelum, (Thu Apr 24, 2:30 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Peter Zijlstra, (Thu Apr 24, 8:25 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Oliver Pinter, (Sat Apr 19, 10:35 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sat Apr 19, 11:19 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Oliver Pinter, (Sat Apr 19, 11:42 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Sat Apr 19, 9:56 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 3:42 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Chris Wedgwood, (Sun Apr 20, 12:59 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Sat Apr 19, 11:29 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Apr 21, 10:31 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 8:36 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Shawn Bohrer, (Sat Apr 19, 10:59 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 4:09 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Alan Cox, (Sun Apr 20, 4:06 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 4:51 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Alan Cox, (Sun Apr 20, 5:36 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 6:44 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Mark Lord, (Sun Apr 20, 9:22 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 8:27 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Daniel Hazelton, (Sun Apr 20, 11:44 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Romano Giannetti, (Tue Apr 22, 2:20 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Denys Vlasenko, (Wed Apr 23, 1:03 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Daniel Hazelton, (Wed Apr 23, 1:21 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, , (Wed Apr 23, 1:25 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Daniel Hazelton, (Wed Apr 23, 1:41 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Romano Giannetti, (Wed Apr 23, 3:46 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Stefan Richter, (Wed Apr 23, 7:24 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Romano Giannetti, (Wed Apr 23, 8:15 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Lennart Sorensen, (Wed Apr 23, 11:59 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 1:26 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Apr 20, 2:48 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andrew Morton, (Sun Apr 20, 5:45 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 5:51 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 4:01 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Apr 20, 6:33 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Apr 20, 6:33 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Sun Apr 20, 11:06 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 7:16 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Apr 21, 1:53 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Daniel Hazelton, (Sun Apr 20, 4:43 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 5:40 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Daniel Hazelton, (Sun Apr 20, 9:45 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 21, 3:51 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Daniel Hazelton, (Mon Apr 21, 1:34 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Bernd Eckenfels, (Sun Apr 20, 6:17 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Avi Kivity, (Sun Apr 20, 7:48 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Willy Tarreau, (Sun Apr 20, 8:47 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Mark Lord, (Sun Apr 20, 9:27 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Sun Apr 20, 10:09 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Willy Tarreau, (Sun Apr 20, 10:20 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Sun Apr 20, 10:40 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Willy Tarreau, (Sun Apr 20, 9:38 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 10:19 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Jörn, (Sun Apr 20, 12:41 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 1:19 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Jörn, (Sun Apr 20, 1:43 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 2:19 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Jörn, (Sun Apr 20, 4:35 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Jörn, (Sun Apr 20, 4:32 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Apr 20, 2:50 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andrew Morton, (Sun Apr 20, 5:50 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Apr 21, 10:29 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 5:55 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 4:09 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 9:21 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Bill Davidsen, (Mon Apr 28, 2:38 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Helge Hafting, (Wed Apr 23, 5:13 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Thu Apr 24, 11:46 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, David Chinner, (Wed Apr 23, 7:29 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 9:06 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 9:30 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Bill Davidsen, (Mon Apr 28, 1:56 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Willy Tarreau, (Sun Apr 20, 9:34 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 10:04 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 8:32 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Alan Cox, (Sun Apr 20, 7:02 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 7:54 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Sun Apr 20, 8:37 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Alan Cox, (Sun Apr 20, 7:37 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 8:18 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Sun Apr 20, 10:05 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Denys Vlasenko, (Mon Apr 21, 3:45 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Mon Apr 21, 9:29 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Denys Vlasenko, (Mon Apr 21, 3:51 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, David Chinner, (Mon Apr 21, 9:28 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Jörn, (Sun Apr 27, 3:27 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Denys Vlasenko, (Sun Apr 27, 7:02 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Sun Apr 27, 7:08 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Denys Vlasenko, (Sun Apr 27, 8:00 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Denys Vlasenko, (Tue Apr 22, 8:48 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Tue Apr 22, 9:01 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Denys Vlasenko, (Tue Apr 22, 9:51 am)
[PATCH] xfs: do not pass size into kmem_free, it's unused, Denys Vlasenko, (Mon Apr 21, 10:33 pm)
[PATCH] xfs: do not pass unused params to xfs_flush_pages, Denys Vlasenko, (Mon Apr 21, 11:03 pm)
[PATCH] xfs: remove unused parameter of xfs_qm_dqpurge, Denys Vlasenko, (Tue Apr 22, 5:42 am)
Re: [PATCH] xfs: remove unused parameter of xfs_qm_dqpurge, Christoph Hellwig, (Wed Apr 23, 4:18 am)
Re: [PATCH] xfs: #define out unused parameters , Denys Vlasenko, (Tue Apr 22, 4:46 pm)
Re: [PATCH] xfs: #define out unused parameters , Denys Vlasenko, (Tue Apr 22, 1:50 pm)
[PATCH] xfs: expose no-op xfs_put_perag(), Denys Vlasenko, (Tue Apr 22, 9:46 am)
Re: [PATCH] xfs: expose no-op xfs_put_perag(), David Chinner, (Tue Apr 22, 7:16 pm)
Re: [PATCH] xfs: expose no-op xfs_put_perag(), Eric Sandeen, (Tue Apr 22, 10:08 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Denys Vlasenko, (Mon Apr 21, 4:28 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 21, 5:55 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Apr 20, 11:41 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 12:03 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Alexander E. Patrakov, (Sun Apr 20, 11:30 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Helge Hafting, (Wed Apr 23, 4:57 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Adrian Bunk, (Sun Apr 20, 10:21 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Sun Apr 20, 10:56 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Arjan van de Ven, (Sat Apr 19, 2:00 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Eric Sandeen, (Sat Apr 19, 10:36 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, David Chinner, (Sun Apr 20, 6:53 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Arjan van de Ven, (Sun Apr 20, 2:11 am)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Apr 19, 2:33 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Stefan Richter, (Sat Apr 19, 3:10 pm)
Re: x86: 4kstacks default, Andrew Morton, (Sat Apr 19, 1:49 pm)
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