Re: Reporting bugs and bisection

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To: David Newall <davidn@...>
Cc: <david@...>, Rafael J. Wysocki <rjw@...>, Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@...>, James Morris <jmorris@...>, Al Viro <viro@...>, Andrew Morton <akpm@...>, Willy Tarreau <w@...>, Stephen Clark <sclark46@...>, Evgeniy Polyakov <johnpol@...>, Tilman Schmidt <tilman@...>, <Valdis.Kletnieks@...>, Mark Lord <lkml@...>, David Miller <davem@...>, <jesper.juhl@...>, <yoshfuji@...>, <jeff@...>, linux-kernel <linux-kernel@...>, <git@...>, <netdev@...>
Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 7:02 am

David Newall <davidn@davidnewall.com> writes:

A common issue in the kernel is code who works with a wide 
range of hardware and firmware with varying quality. The original
code is written to spec but then in the real world the hardware
and firmware has all kinds of interesting quirks not quite
matching the spec that need additional updates to handle. I don't think
it's fair to say in this case the original developer was sloppy.

Then there is also code which is just hard to tune. Examples for this
are the CPU scheduler and the VM, but also other areas. They have to
handle a lot of different workloads with often subtle side effects.
Lots of people have put a lot of excellent work into tuning these
subsystems as users report issues with their workloads. Would you say
the original developers were sloppy? I don't think that would be a fair
description. Some problems are just hard and need many 
iterations to get right. And then often also the requirements change over 
time and need further updates.

There are more such examples in kernel.

Grading programers is a hard problem and I don't think the software
industry has really solved it so far, even though there was a lot of
effort trying to do it over several decades. I doubt it will be solved
for the Linux kernel either.

-Andi
--
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Messages in current thread:
[Bug #10391] 2.6.25-rc7/8: Another resume regression, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Tue Apr 8, 7:02 pm)
2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 12:56 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 9:37 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 9, 12:46 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 1:16 pm)
re: Regression: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 1:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, YOSHIFUJI Hideaki / , (Wed Apr 9, 1:30 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 3:05 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 9, 3:08 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Wed Apr 9, 6:29 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 8:02 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Thu Apr 10, 4:46 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 5:05 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Thu Apr 10, 5:43 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Wed Apr 9, 9:22 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Thu Apr 10, 11:20 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jesper Juhl, (Thu Apr 10, 6:09 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 6:46 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 8:16 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 8:26 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 8:29 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, YOSHIFUJI Hideaki / , (Thu Apr 10, 10:59 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Pavel Emelyanov, (Fri Apr 11, 3:50 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 8:24 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Thu Apr 10, 8:56 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 9:08 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 8:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 8:39 pm)
Re: about bisections, David Miller, (Tue Apr 15, 6:30 pm)
Re: about bisections, Ingo Molnar, (Tue Apr 15, 6:48 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 9:23 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, , (Fri Apr 11, 3:58 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Fri Apr 11, 6:27 pm)
Reporting bugs and bisection (was: Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP trans..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 2:40 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 5:58 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Mon Apr 14, 6:00 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 6:16 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 6:29 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Sun Apr 13, 4:35 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection (was: Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP t..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 4:33 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Stephen Clark, (Sun Apr 13, 6:24 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 5:26 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, , (Sun Apr 13, 7:51 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Mon Apr 14, 12:39 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Mon Apr 14, 1:39 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 2:24 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rene Herman, (Mon Apr 14, 3:13 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 4:38 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rene Herman, (Mon Apr 14, 6:18 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Mon Apr 14, 3:23 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, James Morris, (Mon Apr 14, 11:54 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Tue Apr 15, 5:33 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 8:15 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Jesper Juhl, (Wed Apr 16, 5:17 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Thu Apr 17, 1:04 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Apr 17, 3:09 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ray Lee, (Thu Apr 17, 3:35 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Thu Apr 17, 4:16 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ray Lee, (Thu Apr 17, 4:38 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Thu Apr 17, 4:53 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ray Lee, (Thu Apr 17, 5:01 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Thu Apr 17, 3:57 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 9:26 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 16, 4:04 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 3:39 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 4:16 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 4:53 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 5:05 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 5:25 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 16, 3:02 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Alexey Dobriyan, (Wed Apr 16, 3:58 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 16, 4:01 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 3:55 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, J. Bruce Fields, (Thu Apr 17, 9:50 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Thu Apr 17, 11:26 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 3:43 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Michael Kerrisk, (Tue Apr 15, 5:54 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Tue Apr 15, 10:04 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Tue Apr 15, 4:51 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Tue Apr 15, 10:34 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 16, 12:29 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 16, 8:13 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, , (Tue Apr 15, 11:53 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Stephen Clark, (Wed Apr 16, 8:41 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Wed Apr 16, 5:06 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Wed Apr 16, 7:02 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 6:01 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 7:05 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Tue Apr 15, 12:55 am)
Work WAS(Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, jamal, (Tue Apr 15, 9:18 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 4:04 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Apr 14, 10:43 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 1:51 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ilpo Järvinen, (Mon Apr 14, 3:30 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Apr 14, 2:24 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Mon Apr 14, 8:08 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 4:30 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 6:15 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 6:41 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Roman Shaposhnik, (Mon Apr 14, 1:35 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 5:46 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Bill Fink, (Tue Apr 15, 1:25 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Christoph Hellwig, (Mon Apr 14, 5:06 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Mon Apr 14, 3:43 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 2:39 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 2:43 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Jakub Narebski, (Sun Apr 13, 8:36 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 6:41 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Sun Apr 13, 3:47 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection (was: Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP t..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 3:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Fri Apr 11, 2:40 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Fri Apr 11, 9:19 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 10:35 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Fri Apr 11, 6:16 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Fri Apr 11, 6:26 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 6:25 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Fri Apr 11, 7:23 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Sat Apr 12, 3:06 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Sat Apr 12, 1:37 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Fri Apr 11, 6:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Fri Apr 11, 10:59 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, , (Fri Apr 11, 3:58 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 11:18 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Fri Apr 11, 2:07 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Willy Tarreau, (Sat Apr 12, 4:44 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Sat Apr 12, 5:49 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 2:15 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Sergio Luis, (Sun Apr 13, 2:51 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 3:24 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 5:29 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Charlie Brady, (Thu Apr 10, 6:52 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jesper Juhl, (Thu Apr 10, 7:02 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 7:05 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, vincent-perrier, (Thu Apr 10, 7:10 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jesper Juhl, (Thu Apr 10, 7:39 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 7:14 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, vincent-perrier, (Thu Apr 10, 7:32 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 7:41 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, vincent-perrier, (Thu Apr 10, 7:51 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 11:07 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Harvey Harrison, (Wed Apr 9, 8:37 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Gerhard Mack, (Thu Apr 10, 9:52 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 11:15 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Gerhard Mack, (Thu Apr 10, 11:58 am)
Regression: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 10:06 am)