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Work WAS(Re: Reporting bugs and bisection

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To: Willy Tarreau <w@...>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@...>, David Miller <davem@...>, <jmorris@...>, <viro@...>, <david@...>, <sclark46@...>, <johnpol@...>, <rjw@...>, <tilman@...>, <Valdis.Kletnieks@...>, <lkml@...>, <jesper.juhl@...>, <yoshfuji@...>, <jeff@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <git@...>, <netdev@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 9:18 am

On Tue, 2008-15-04 at 06:55 +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:


Stats such as those above, while useful, are flawed.
IMO James Morris has (probably more than anybody else) hit on the core
issue. To extend his view: theres more than just code review that
deserves respect. Testing is one. Commenting, not necessarily on code,
but on architecture is another. Documenting. Yes, running sparse or even
Lindent or checkpatch.
In the old/current Linux thinking (pun intended) work equates to
churning code. That thought process derives from Linus actually then
propagates down stream to other folks.
I think the Linus approach is still excellent - but its definition of
"work" is no longer valid. Work must include all these other things
and visible credit is important if the revolution is to continue.

If you look at it from a software engineering or production resource
management, the Linux development model has gotta be one of the most
inefficient[1] - with a reward system geared to developers mostly.
If you want to look it from an investment of time (ROI perspective),
developers get way too much credit riding on everybody elses back.
Why should Mark Lord report another bug to us?
Put yourself in his shoes:
- he is a clever guy who has already worked around the bug. So a proper
fix is only a convinience for him.
- Blessed as he was - he got to do more and more work after reporting.
- he got slapped for claiming he had to go and get lunch and therefore
didnt have time to do more bisect for a bug that wasnt just unique to
his setup.
- he spent a gazillion electrons responding to people and justifying his
stance
- he got no credit for his time whatsoever when the bug was fixed (he
wont be showing up on lwn list).

I think perspective and credit for peoples time needs to change.

cheers,
jamal

[1] With current momentum, theres an infinite resources of developers
and testers and documenters in Linux, i.e
resource management is only valid as a metric if you had finite
resources. So the point i am making is moot - but I do strongly believe
the momentum will dampen if current trend of defining work continues.

--
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Messages in current thread:
[Bug #10391] 2.6.25-rc7/8: Another resume regression, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Tue Apr 8, 7:02 pm)
2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 12:56 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 9:37 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 9, 12:46 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 1:16 pm)
re: Regression: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 1:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, YOSHIFUJI Hideaki / , (Wed Apr 9, 1:30 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 3:05 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 9, 3:08 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Wed Apr 9, 6:29 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 8:02 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Thu Apr 10, 4:46 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 5:05 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Thu Apr 10, 5:43 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Wed Apr 9, 9:22 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Thu Apr 10, 11:20 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jesper Juhl, (Thu Apr 10, 6:09 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 6:46 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 8:16 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 8:26 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 8:29 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, YOSHIFUJI Hideaki / , (Thu Apr 10, 10:59 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Pavel Emelyanov, (Fri Apr 11, 3:50 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 8:24 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Thu Apr 10, 8:56 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 9:08 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 8:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 8:39 pm)
Re: about bisections, David Miller, (Tue Apr 15, 6:30 pm)
Re: about bisections, Ingo Molnar, (Tue Apr 15, 6:48 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 9:23 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, , (Fri Apr 11, 3:58 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Fri Apr 11, 6:27 pm)
Reporting bugs and bisection (was: Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP trans..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 2:40 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 5:58 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Mon Apr 14, 6:00 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 6:16 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 6:29 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Sun Apr 13, 4:35 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection (was: Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP t..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 4:33 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Stephen Clark, (Sun Apr 13, 6:24 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 5:26 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, , (Sun Apr 13, 7:51 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Mon Apr 14, 12:39 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Mon Apr 14, 1:39 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 2:24 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rene Herman, (Mon Apr 14, 3:13 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 4:38 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rene Herman, (Mon Apr 14, 6:18 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Mon Apr 14, 3:23 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, James Morris, (Mon Apr 14, 11:54 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Tue Apr 15, 5:33 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 8:15 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Jesper Juhl, (Wed Apr 16, 5:17 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Thu Apr 17, 1:04 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Apr 17, 3:09 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ray Lee, (Thu Apr 17, 3:35 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Thu Apr 17, 4:16 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ray Lee, (Thu Apr 17, 4:38 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Thu Apr 17, 4:53 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ray Lee, (Thu Apr 17, 5:01 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Thu Apr 17, 3:57 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 9:26 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 16, 4:04 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 3:39 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 4:16 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 4:53 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 5:05 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 5:25 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 16, 3:02 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Alexey Dobriyan, (Wed Apr 16, 3:58 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 16, 4:01 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 3:55 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, J. Bruce Fields, (Thu Apr 17, 9:50 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Thu Apr 17, 11:26 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 3:43 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Michael Kerrisk, (Tue Apr 15, 5:54 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Tue Apr 15, 10:04 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Tue Apr 15, 4:51 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Tue Apr 15, 10:34 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 16, 12:29 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 16, 8:13 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, , (Tue Apr 15, 11:53 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Stephen Clark, (Wed Apr 16, 8:41 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Wed Apr 16, 5:06 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Wed Apr 16, 7:02 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 6:01 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 7:05 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Tue Apr 15, 12:55 am)
Work WAS(Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, jamal, (Tue Apr 15, 9:18 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 4:04 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Apr 14, 10:43 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 1:51 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ilpo Järvinen, (Mon Apr 14, 3:30 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Apr 14, 2:24 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Mon Apr 14, 8:08 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 4:30 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 6:15 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 6:41 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Roman Shaposhnik, (Mon Apr 14, 1:35 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 5:46 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Bill Fink, (Tue Apr 15, 1:25 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Christoph Hellwig, (Mon Apr 14, 5:06 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Mon Apr 14, 3:43 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 2:39 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 2:43 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Jakub Narebski, (Sun Apr 13, 8:36 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 6:41 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Sun Apr 13, 3:47 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection (was: Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP t..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 3:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Fri Apr 11, 2:40 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Fri Apr 11, 9:19 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 10:35 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Fri Apr 11, 6:16 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Fri Apr 11, 6:26 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 6:25 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Fri Apr 11, 7:23 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Sat Apr 12, 3:06 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Sat Apr 12, 1:37 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Fri Apr 11, 6:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Fri Apr 11, 10:59 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, , (Fri Apr 11, 3:58 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 11:18 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Fri Apr 11, 2:07 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Willy Tarreau, (Sat Apr 12, 4:44 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Sat Apr 12, 5:49 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 2:15 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Sergio Luis, (Sun Apr 13, 2:51 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 3:24 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 5:29 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Charlie Brady, (Thu Apr 10, 6:52 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jesper Juhl, (Thu Apr 10, 7:02 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 7:05 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, vincent-perrier, (Thu Apr 10, 7:10 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jesper Juhl, (Thu Apr 10, 7:39 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 7:14 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, vincent-perrier, (Thu Apr 10, 7:32 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 7:41 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, vincent-perrier, (Thu Apr 10, 7:51 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 11:07 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Harvey Harrison, (Wed Apr 9, 8:37 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Gerhard Mack, (Thu Apr 10, 9:52 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 11:15 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Gerhard Mack, (Thu Apr 10, 11:58 am)
Regression: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 10:06 am)
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