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Re: Reporting bugs and bisection

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To: David Miller <davem@...>
Cc: <akpm@...>, <viro@...>, <w@...>, <david@...>, <sclark46@...>, <johnpol@...>, <rjw@...>, <tilman@...>, <Valdis.Kletnieks@...>, <lkml@...>, <jesper.juhl@...>, <yoshfuji@...>, <jeff@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <git@...>, <netdev@...>
Date: Monday, April 14, 2008 - 5:46 am

David Miller <davem@davemloft.net> writes:

I think Al's point was that we need far more "free form, loose and
flexible" work for reviewing code. As in people going over trees and
just checking it for anything suspicious and going over existing code
and checking it for anything suspicious and going also over mailing
list patch posts. And also maintainers who appreciate such review.

And checking it for anything suspicious does not mean running
only checkpatch.pl or even just sparse, but actually reading it
and trying to make sense of it.

I don't see that really as conflicting with your goals.

It would be some more work for the maintainers to handle more such
feedback because they would need to process comments from such "free
form reviewers".  Some of them will undoutedly be wrong and that will
take some time away from processing features (and bugs) but I suspect
it would be still worth it.

On the other hand it would also take some work away from
processing bugs, but as Andrew mentions earlier it looks
like significant parts of the boring areas of bug reports 
(like getting basic information from reporter etc.) 
could be "out-sourced" to bug masters. 

And I think being a bug master is an excellent way for someone who isn't
a great coder to contribute in excellent ways to Linux
(far more than someone e.g. running checkpatch.pl ever could) 

The challenging thing is also to make sure that the quality of
comments stays high. That means more focus on logic and functionality
than on form. If the reviewer just goes over the coding style or
trivialities I don't think that will improve Linux really. I think the
problem is often that people think kernel code must be very
complicated and they don't even dare try to understand it.  But
frankly a lot of the kernel code is not really that complicated logic
wise and also doesn't need too specialized knowledge to understand.
So I am optimistic that there are a lot of people out there who would
be qualified to do some logic review.

Really Linux needs a better "reviewing culture" and also
a better "bug processing culture"


In my experience weekend maintainers tend to be better at sharing
out work. As in they usually (ok there are exceptions) more work
including review work on the mailing lists, while my impression
is that paid for maintainers tend to have tendency for more 
centralized "cathedral" tree maintenance. That is with them trying to 
keep everything under control and effectively much more stuff going on the 
background out of public view. But the sharing out of work and less
centralization is what we really want here I think.

Anyways I'm not saying all paid-for maintainers are like this, but
there is certainly a trend I think.

I admit I personally went through both phases in several projects.

When you're really focussed on something it is tempting to do 
the "keep things under control" central model, but in the end
it is the wrong way to go.

-Andi
--
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Messages in current thread:
[Bug #10391] 2.6.25-rc7/8: Another resume regression, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Tue Apr 8, 7:02 pm)
2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 12:56 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 9:37 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 9, 12:46 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 1:16 pm)
re: Regression: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 1:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, YOSHIFUJI Hideaki / , (Wed Apr 9, 1:30 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 3:05 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 9, 3:08 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Wed Apr 9, 6:29 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 8:02 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Thu Apr 10, 4:46 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 5:05 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Thu Apr 10, 5:43 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Wed Apr 9, 9:22 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Thu Apr 10, 11:20 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jesper Juhl, (Thu Apr 10, 6:09 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 6:46 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 8:16 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 8:26 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 8:29 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, YOSHIFUJI Hideaki / , (Thu Apr 10, 10:59 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Pavel Emelyanov, (Fri Apr 11, 3:50 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 8:24 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Thu Apr 10, 8:56 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 9:08 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 8:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 8:39 pm)
Re: about bisections, David Miller, (Tue Apr 15, 6:30 pm)
Re: about bisections, Ingo Molnar, (Tue Apr 15, 6:48 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 9:23 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, , (Fri Apr 11, 3:58 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Fri Apr 11, 6:27 pm)
Reporting bugs and bisection (was: Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP trans..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 2:40 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 5:58 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Mon Apr 14, 6:00 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 6:16 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 6:29 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Sun Apr 13, 4:35 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection (was: Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP t..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 4:33 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Stephen Clark, (Sun Apr 13, 6:24 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 5:26 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, , (Sun Apr 13, 7:51 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Mon Apr 14, 12:39 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Mon Apr 14, 1:39 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 2:24 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rene Herman, (Mon Apr 14, 3:13 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 4:38 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rene Herman, (Mon Apr 14, 6:18 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Mon Apr 14, 3:23 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, James Morris, (Mon Apr 14, 11:54 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Tue Apr 15, 5:33 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 8:15 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Jesper Juhl, (Wed Apr 16, 5:17 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Thu Apr 17, 1:04 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Apr 17, 3:09 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ray Lee, (Thu Apr 17, 3:35 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Thu Apr 17, 4:16 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ray Lee, (Thu Apr 17, 4:38 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Thu Apr 17, 4:53 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ray Lee, (Thu Apr 17, 5:01 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Thu Apr 17, 3:57 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 9:26 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 16, 4:04 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 3:39 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 4:16 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 4:53 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 5:05 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 5:25 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 16, 3:02 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Alexey Dobriyan, (Wed Apr 16, 3:58 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 16, 4:01 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 16, 3:55 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, J. Bruce Fields, (Thu Apr 17, 9:50 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Thu Apr 17, 11:26 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Sverre Rabbelier, (Wed Apr 16, 3:43 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Michael Kerrisk, (Tue Apr 15, 5:54 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Tue Apr 15, 10:04 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Tue Apr 15, 4:51 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Tue Apr 15, 10:34 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 16, 12:29 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 16, 8:13 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, , (Tue Apr 15, 11:53 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Stephen Clark, (Wed Apr 16, 8:41 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Newall, (Wed Apr 16, 5:06 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Wed Apr 16, 7:02 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 6:01 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 7:05 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Willy Tarreau, (Tue Apr 15, 12:55 am)
Work WAS(Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, jamal, (Tue Apr 15, 9:18 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 4:04 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Apr 14, 10:43 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 1:51 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Ilpo Järvinen, (Mon Apr 14, 3:30 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Apr 14, 2:24 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Adrian Bunk, (Mon Apr 14, 8:08 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 4:30 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andrew Morton, (Mon Apr 14, 6:15 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 6:41 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Roman Shaposhnik, (Mon Apr 14, 1:35 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Andi Kleen, (Mon Apr 14, 5:46 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Bill Fink, (Tue Apr 15, 1:25 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Christoph Hellwig, (Mon Apr 14, 5:06 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Al Viro, (Mon Apr 14, 3:43 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 2:39 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Mon Apr 14, 2:43 am)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Jakub Narebski, (Sun Apr 13, 8:36 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 6:41 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection, David Miller, (Sun Apr 13, 3:47 pm)
Re: Reporting bugs and bisection (was: Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP t..., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 3:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Fri Apr 11, 2:40 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Fri Apr 11, 9:19 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 10:35 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Fri Apr 11, 6:16 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Fri Apr 11, 6:26 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 6:25 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Tilman Schmidt, (Fri Apr 11, 7:23 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Ilpo Järvinen, (Sat Apr 12, 3:06 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Sat Apr 12, 1:37 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Fri Apr 11, 6:27 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Fri Apr 11, 10:59 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, , (Fri Apr 11, 3:58 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 11:18 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Fri Apr 11, 2:07 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Willy Tarreau, (Sat Apr 12, 4:44 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Sat Apr 12, 5:49 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 2:15 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Sergio Luis, (Sun Apr 13, 2:51 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 13, 3:24 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Evgeniy Polyakov, (Fri Apr 11, 5:29 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Charlie Brady, (Thu Apr 10, 6:52 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jesper Juhl, (Thu Apr 10, 7:02 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 7:05 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, vincent-perrier, (Thu Apr 10, 7:10 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Jesper Juhl, (Thu Apr 10, 7:39 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 7:14 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, vincent-perrier, (Thu Apr 10, 7:32 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, David Miller, (Thu Apr 10, 7:41 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, vincent-perrier, (Thu Apr 10, 7:51 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 11:07 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Harvey Harrison, (Wed Apr 9, 8:37 pm)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Gerhard Mack, (Thu Apr 10, 9:52 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Thu Apr 10, 11:15 am)
Re: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Gerhard Mack, (Thu Apr 10, 11:58 am)
Regression: 2.6.25-rc8: FTP transfer errors, Mark Lord, (Wed Apr 9, 10:06 am)
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