Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel

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From: Linus Torvalds
Date: Monday, February 4, 2008 - 2:24 pm

On Mon, 4 Feb 2008, J. Bruce Fields wrote:

.. not even shared. It was hard to get correct semantics full stop. 

Which is a traditional problem. The thing is, the kernel always has some 
internal state, and it's hard to expose all the semantics that the kernel 
knows about to user space.

So no, performance is not the only reason to move to kernel space. It can 
easily be things like needing direct access to internal data queues (for a 
iSCSI target, this could be things like barriers or just tagged commands - 
yes, you can probably emulate things like that without access to the 
actual IO queues, but are you sure the semantics will be entirely right?

The kernel/userland boundary is not just a performance boundary, it's an 
abstraction boundary too, and these kinds of protocols tend to break 
abstractions. NFS broke it by having "file handles" (which is not 
something that really exists in user space, and is almost impossible to 
emulate correctly), and I bet the same thing happens when emulating a SCSI 
target in user space.

Maybe not. I _rally_ haven't looked into iSCSI, I'm just guessing there 
would be things like ordering issues.

		Linus
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Messages in current thread:
Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Wed Jan 23, 7:22 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Wed Jan 23, 10:11 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Tue Jan 29, 1:42 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Roland Dreier, (Tue Jan 29, 2:31 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, FUJITA Tomonori, (Tue Jan 29, 4:32 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Wed Jan 30, 1:29 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Wed Jan 30, 1:38 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, FUJITA Tomonori, (Wed Jan 30, 3:56 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Wed Jan 30, 4:17 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Wed Jan 30, 4:18 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Wed Jan 30, 4:40 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Wed Jan 30, 6:10 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, FUJITA Tomonori, (Wed Jan 30, 6:54 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Wed Jan 30, 9:22 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Wed Jan 30, 9:34 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Wed Jan 30, 9:50 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Wed Jan 30, 10:03 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Thu Jan 31, 12:48 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Thu Jan 31, 6:25 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Thu Jan 31, 7:34 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Thu Jan 31, 7:44 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Thu Jan 31, 8:50 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Thu Jan 31, 10:14 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Thu Jan 31, 10:40 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Thu Jan 31, 11:15 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Fri Feb 1, 1:11 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Fri Feb 1, 2:08 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Fri Feb 1, 3:39 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Fri Feb 1, 4:04 am)
Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Lin ..., Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Fri Feb 1, 4:50 am)
Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Lin ..., Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Fri Feb 1, 4:50 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Fri Feb 1, 5:05 am)
Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Lin ..., Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Fri Feb 1, 5:25 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Fri Feb 1, 6:25 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Fri Feb 1, 7:36 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Pete Wyckoff, (Sat Feb 2, 8:32 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Mon Feb 4, 5:27 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Mon Feb 4, 6:53 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Mon Feb 4, 8:30 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Mon Feb 4, 9:25 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, David Dillow, (Mon Feb 4, 10:00 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Mon Feb 4, 10:06 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Mon Feb 4, 10:08 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Mon Feb 4, 10:16 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Mon Feb 4, 10:25 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Douglas Gilbert, (Mon Feb 4, 10:30 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Mon Feb 4, 10:56 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Mon Feb 4, 11:22 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Feb 4, 11:29 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Mon Feb 4, 11:38 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Mon Feb 4, 11:49 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Mon Feb 4, 11:54 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Mon Feb 4, 12:06 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Mon Feb 4, 12:19 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Feb 4, 12:44 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Mon Feb 4, 1:24 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, J. Bruce Fields, (Mon Feb 4, 2:01 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Feb 4, 2:24 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Mon Feb 4, 3:00 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Mon Feb 4, 3:59 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Mon Feb 4, 4:00 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Mon Feb 4, 4:12 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Mon Feb 4, 4:16 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Feb 4, 4:27 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Feb 4, 4:45 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Matt Mackall, (Mon Feb 4, 5:07 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Feb 4, 5:24 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Matt Mackall, (Mon Feb 4, 5:45 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Feb 4, 6:20 pm)
Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Lin ..., Tomasz Chmielewski, (Tue Feb 5, 12:14 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Tue Feb 5, 1:38 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Olivier Galibert, (Tue Feb 5, 6:05 am)
Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Lin ..., Tomasz Chmielewski, (Tue Feb 5, 9:07 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Tue Feb 5, 9:25 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Erez Zilber, (Tue Feb 5, 10:01 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Erez Zilber, (Tue Feb 5, 10:10 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Jeff Garzik, (Tue Feb 5, 10:50 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Jeff Garzik, (Tue Feb 5, 11:08 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Feb 5, 11:18 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Tue Feb 5, 11:37 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Tue Feb 5, 11:59 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Tue Feb 5, 12:00 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Tue Feb 5, 12:01 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Tue Feb 5, 12:01 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Tue Feb 5, 12:02 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Tue Feb 5, 12:02 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Jeff Garzik, (Tue Feb 5, 12:12 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, James Bottomley, (Tue Feb 5, 12:13 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Tue Feb 5, 12:21 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Tue Feb 5, 5:11 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Tue Feb 5, 5:17 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Tue Feb 5, 5:48 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Tue Feb 5, 5:51 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Tue Feb 5, 6:43 pm)
Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Lin ..., Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Tue Feb 5, 7:01 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Wed Feb 6, 3:22 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Wed Feb 6, 5:16 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Benny Halevy, (Wed Feb 6, 9:45 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Roland Dreier, (Wed Feb 6, 10:06 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Wed Feb 6, 11:07 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Thu Feb 7, 6:45 am)
Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Lin ..., Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Thu Feb 7, 8:38 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Fri Feb 8, 3:32 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Fri Feb 8, 3:37 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Fri Feb 8, 4:33 am)
Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Lin ..., Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Fri Feb 8, 4:53 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Fri Feb 8, 7:36 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Fri Feb 8, 7:42 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Fri Feb 8, 4:53 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Fri Feb 8, 5:00 pm)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Luben Tuikov, (Sat Feb 9, 12:32 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Vladislav Bolkhovitin, (Mon Feb 11, 3:02 am)
Re: [Scst-devel] Integration of SCST in the mainstream Lin ..., Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Tue Feb 12, 8:44 pm)
CONFIG_SLUB and reproducable general protection faults on ..., Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Tue Feb 12, 11:18 pm)
Re: CONFIG_SLUB and reproducable general protection faults ..., Nicholas A. Bellinger, (Wed Feb 13, 9:37 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Fri Feb 15, 8:02 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Erez Zilber, (Mon Feb 18, 2:43 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Mon Feb 18, 4:01 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Erez Zilber, (Wed Feb 20, 12:34 am)
Re: Integration of SCST in the mainstream Linux kernel, Bart Van Assche, (Wed Feb 20, 1:41 am)