Re: [PATCHSET] FUSE: extend FUSE to support more operations

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To: Miklos Szeredi <miklos@...>
Cc: <fuse-devel@...>, <greg@...>, <linux-kernel@...>
Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 11:10 am

Hello,

Miklos Szeredi wrote:

Event notification performance problem is usually in its scalability
not in each notification. It's nice to optimize that too but I don't
think it weighs too much especially for FUSE. Doing it request/reply
way could have scalability concerns, please see below.

> Also there's again the question of userspace filesystem messing with

That would simply be a broken poll implementation just as O_NONBLOCK
read can block in ->read forever.

> So I'd still argue for the simple POLL-request/POLL-notify protocol on

Given that the number of in-flight requests are not too high, I think
linear search is fine for now but switching it to b-tree shouldn't be
difficult.

So, pros for req/reply approach.

* Less context switch per event notification.

* No need for separate async notification mechanism.

Cons.

* More interface impedence matching from libfuse.

* Higher overhead when poll/select finishes. Either all outstanding
requests need to be cancelled using INTERRUPT whenever poll/select
returns or kernel needs to keep persistent list of outstanding polls
so that later poll/select can reuse them. The problem here is that
kernel doesn't know when or whether they'll be re-used. We can put
in LRU-based heuristics but it's getting too complex. Note that
it's different from userland server keeping track. The same problem
exists with userland based tracking but for many servers it would be
just a bit in existing structure and we can be much more lax on
userland. ie. actual storage backed files usually don't need
notification at all as data is always available, so the amount of
overhead is limited in most cases but we can't assume things like
that for the kernel.

Overall, I think being lazy about cancellation and let userland notify
asynchronously would be better performance and simplicity wise. What
do you think?

Thanks.

--
tejun
--

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Messages in current thread:
Re: [PATCHSET] FUSE: extend FUSE to support more operations, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Nov 13, 10:48 am)
Re: [PATCHSET] FUSE: extend FUSE to support more operations, Tejun Heo, (Thu Nov 13, 11:10 am)
Re: [PATCHSET] FUSE: extend FUSE to support more operations, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Nov 13, 11:52 am)
Re: [PATCHSET] FUSE: extend FUSE to support more operations, Christoph Hellwig, (Wed Nov 12, 5:14 am)
Re: [fuse-devel] [PATCHSET] FUSE: extend FUSE to support mor..., Szabolcs Szakacsits, (Tue Oct 14, 8:16 am)
[PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 1:41 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, H. Peter Anvin, (Thu Aug 28, 2:20 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 2:28 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, H. Peter Anvin, (Thu Aug 28, 3:08 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Aug 28, 3:18 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, H. Peter Anvin, (Thu Aug 28, 4:21 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Aug 28, 4:55 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, H. Peter Anvin, (Thu Aug 28, 5:27 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Fri Aug 29, 3:32 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Greg KH, (Thu Aug 28, 1:51 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 1:59 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 2:02 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Greg KH, (Thu Aug 28, 2:14 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 2:25 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 2:01 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Aug 28, 2:13 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 2:17 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Aug 28, 2:23 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 2:34 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Alan Cox, (Thu Aug 28, 4:48 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Aug 28, 3:25 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 3:42 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Aug 28, 4:02 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 10:19 pm)
Re: [fuse-devel] [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Roger Willcocks, (Fri Aug 29, 7:31 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Fri Aug 29, 3:59 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Fri Aug 29, 4:12 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Fri Aug 29, 4:29 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Fri Aug 29, 5:03 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Eric W. Biederman, (Fri Aug 29, 3:17 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Sep 1, 7:57 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Mon Sep 1, 8:03 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Eric W. Biederman, (Wed Sep 3, 10:32 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Wed Sep 3, 10:40 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Eric W. Biederman, (Wed Sep 3, 5:51 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Wed Sep 3, 8:09 pm)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Tejun Heo, (Sat Aug 30, 7:40 am)
Re: [PATCH 5/7] FUSE: implement ioctl support, Arnd Bergmann, (Fri Aug 29, 3:47 pm)
[PATCH 7/7] FUSE: implement poll support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 1:41 pm)
[PATCH 4/7] FUSE: implement direct lseek support, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 1:41 pm)
[PATCH 1/7] FUSE: add include protectors, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 1:40 pm)
[PATCH 3/7] FUSE: implement nonseekable open, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 1:40 pm)
[PATCH 2/7] FUSE: pass nonblock flag to client, Tejun Heo, (Thu Aug 28, 1:40 pm)