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Re: Linux 2.6.24

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To: Giacomo A. Catenazzi <cate@...>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...>, Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...>
Date: Friday, January 25, 2008 - 7:35 am

* Giacomo A. Catenazzi <cate@cateee.net> wrote:


i think this heavily varies per subsystem.

v2.6.24-rc was pretty bad due to the sglist design bug that crept in and 
that kept most of the IO hackers busy for a few weeks, while testsystems 
kept crashing and no progress was made on _other_ bugs. v2.6.24 early 
rc's were also marred by half-cooked networking patches messing up 
bisectability. I've seen a number of testers give up on that alone. 
There was an unusually high flux of networking fixes throughout v2.6.24, 
up to the very last day before the release.

Since it's Friday already, i put the blame for that on all the 
subsystems that do not develop on lkml! :-)

It is _very_ hard for us to judge the stability and sanity of a 
subsystem (and the risk factor of upcoming features!) if it's not 
developed on lkml. Observing the bugs alone helps in getting a picture, 
but it does not help the testers of early -rc's: it is a few 
weeks/months after the fact and hence too late. We need to be able to 
observe the development activities, but that's hard with all these 
detached development lists. (Not only hard, it is in fact impossible, 
given the sheer number of mailing list addresses in MAINTAINERS. I know, 
i tried it.)

so -rc stability is usually a function of the feature/fix ratio of a 
given subsystem's changes for a kernel, and those are very hard to 
predict if they are not done on lkml. Getting good -mm coverage for the 
subsystem git trees helps quite a bit as Andrew does a heroic job 
herding all the cats, but still there's way too much 'surprise factor' 
in the git merges and all the hidden development that is not directly 
visible on lkml. The 'surprise factor' is not even come mainly from 
combining all the trees together (that is relatively easy), it is in the 
cumulative risk factor that is hard to get right due to development not 
always being done on lkml.

Case point from arch/x86: everyone who follows lkml could have predicted 
it from the PAT development discussions that PAT is simply not ready 
yet. We deferred it to v2.6.26, but had we tried to cram it into v2.6.25 
and had it broken boxes left and right, we'd rightfully be confronted 
with all the existing lkml track record that suggested bad PAT related 
problems and predicted the outcome. For subsystems that do not develop 
on lkml, no such lkml track record exists and the danger of introducing 
bad patches and ruining early -rc's increases.

	Ingo
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Messages in current thread:
Linux 2.6.24, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 24, 7:17 pm)
Re: Linux 2.6.24, Jan Engelhardt, (Sun Feb 3, 8:35 am)
Re: Linux 2.6.24, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 24, 7:41 pm)
Re: Linux 2.6.24, Giacomo A. Catenazzi, (Fri Jan 25, 5:10 am)
Re: Linux 2.6.24, Ingo Molnar, (Fri Jan 25, 7:35 am)
Re: Linux 2.6.24, , (Fri Jan 25, 5:58 am)
Re: Linux 2.6.24, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Jan 25, 7:58 am)
Re: Linux 2.6.24, Giacomo A. Catenazzi, (Fri Jan 25, 8:34 am)
Re: Linux 2.6.24, Stefan Richter, (Fri Jan 25, 7:50 pm)
Re: Linux 2.6.24, , (Fri Jan 25, 11:19 pm)
Re: using LKML for subsystem development, Stefan Richter, (Sat Jan 26, 10:25 am)
Re: using LKML for subsystem development, Ingo Molnar, (Fri Feb 1, 5:40 am)
Re: using LKML for subsystem development, Stefan Richter, (Fri Feb 1, 3:53 pm)
Re: using LKML for subsystem development, David Miller, (Sat Jan 26, 10:07 am)
Re: using LKML for subsystem development, Stefan Richter, (Sat Jan 26, 10:45 am)
Re: using LKML for subsystem development, Stefan Richter, (Sat Jan 26, 9:31 am)
[PATCH] linux-2.6.24/drivers/hid/hid-input.c, Philipp Matthias Hahn, (Fri Jan 25, 6:11 am)
Re: [PATCH] linux-2.6.24/drivers/hid/hid-input.c, Jiri Kosina, (Fri Jan 25, 6:30 am)
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