Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner

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From: Steven Toth
Date: Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 6:03 pm

Markus Rechberger wrote:

Because the good people in this mailing list are keeping them honest. 
Give any board or silicon company the ability to protect their IP, even 
in the smallest way and they'll do it, and for no good technical reason. 
It's a cut throat market and it's not clear that everyone understands 
just how thin sales margins really are.

That means Hauppauge potentially releasing a binary driver, because it's 
much easier than seeking silicon vendor permission for a public diver. 
The net result of that would mean I'd have to leave the company and find 
another company that practices the one thing I truly care about .... 
open source and open development groups.

I'm keeping Hauppauge honest with their Linux involvement and I'm not 
alone. Other devs in other linux subsystems in other companies are doing 
the same thing.

Binary drivers (or binary components) leads Linux back in time.

I can't believe your so passionate about protecting secrets.


Why would a company want to do that? Companies don't do that, hackers do 
that.


It seems perfectly valid to me.


The kernel has no good API for those, each new type of video device and 
suggested API is judged on it's own merits and discussed on the mailing 
lists.


Those are not my problem and I don't use them, you should raise that 
with the relevant usb-dev mailing lists. I'm here because I care about 
linuxtv. Please stay on topic.

Just because AMD or INTEL want to invent some whizzy new technology it 
doesn't say anything about the TV card development and retail business. 
Intel and AMD have teams of Linux engineers helping operating system 
developers bring their ideas and technologies to new platforms. That's a 
million miles away from any of the TV board vendors I know of, who have 
little or NO fulltime linux developers and consider the < 5% market 
fringe at best.

Markus, senior devs in the LinuxTV group are telling you, based on their 
commercial experience, that userspace access is technically great, but 
long term it will be used against the community and will ultimately hurt 
linuxtv development.

If you want to reply and have the last word, go ahead, but repeating 
what I've said on this list in the past - I'll never support the 
userland tuning/demod idea.

I wanted to work directly with you on the em28xx tree, helping you 
remove the 5% of code that Johannes referred to, but you said no. I 
wanted to help you make the tree conform to the linuxtv standards for 
frameworks, you said no.

If you care about LinuxTV you'll work with the core subsystem developers 
to bring your em28xx tree inline. If you don't care then why are you here?

- Steve







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Messages in current thread:
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Wed Sep 12, 4:10 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Johannes Stezenbach, (Thu Sep 13, 6:13 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Thu Sep 13, 7:12 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Manu Abraham, (Thu Sep 13, 8:50 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Thu Sep 13, 9:08 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Manu Abraham, (Thu Sep 13, 9:22 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Thu Sep 13, 9:32 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Manu Abraham, (Thu Sep 13, 9:52 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Steven Toth, (Thu Sep 13, 1:36 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Thu Sep 13, 4:17 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, hermann pitton, (Thu Sep 13, 5:49 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Steven Toth, (Thu Sep 13, 6:03 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Thu Sep 13, 11:38 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Manu Abraham, (Fri Sep 14, 12:57 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Joerg Roedel, (Fri Sep 14, 2:15 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Johannes Stezenbach, (Fri Sep 14, 4:38 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Manu Abraham, (Fri Sep 14, 5:00 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Alan Cox, (Fri Sep 14, 5:10 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Alan Cox, (Fri Sep 14, 6:52 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Fri Sep 14, 9:09 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Joerg Roedel, (Fri Sep 14, 9:13 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Fri Sep 14, 9:18 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Fri Sep 14, 9:36 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Manu Abraham, (Fri Sep 14, 9:56 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Mauro Carvalho Chehab, (Fri Sep 14, 10:32 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Joerg Roedel, (Fri Sep 14, 10:40 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Fri Sep 14, 10:46 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Mauro Carvalho Chehab, (Fri Sep 14, 11:29 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Alex Deucher, (Fri Sep 14, 11:52 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Fri Sep 14, 11:59 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Michael Krufky, (Fri Sep 14, 12:20 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Alex Deucher, (Fri Sep 14, 12:38 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Johannes Stezenbach, (Fri Sep 14, 1:43 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Aidan Thornton, (Fri Sep 14, 2:07 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Mauro Carvalho Chehab, (Fri Sep 14, 2:16 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Manu Abraham, (Fri Sep 14, 2:53 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Fri Sep 14, 6:29 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Mauro Carvalho Chehab, (Fri Sep 14, 6:49 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Fri Sep 14, 6:49 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Mauro Carvalho Chehab, (Fri Sep 14, 8:09 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Manu Abraham, (Sat Sep 15, 1:52 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Sat Sep 15, 5:59 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Johannes Stezenbach, (Sat Sep 15, 6:16 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Johannes Stezenbach, (Sat Sep 15, 6:34 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Sat Sep 15, 6:38 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Mauro Carvalho Chehab, (Sat Sep 15, 7:04 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Sat Sep 15, 7:33 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Mauro Carvalho Chehab, (Sat Sep 15, 7:45 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Steven Toth, (Sat Sep 15, 7:56 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Bernard Jungen, (Sat Sep 15, 9:58 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Hans Verkuil, (Sun Sep 16, 4:30 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Mon Sep 17, 1:46 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Jelle Foks, (Tue Sep 18, 1:19 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Markus Rechberger, (Tue Sep 18, 1:55 am)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Mauro Carvalho Chehab, (Tue Sep 18, 3:56 pm)
Re: [linux-dvb] [PATCH] Userspace tuner, Alan Cox, (Tue Sep 18, 4:00 pm)