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Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60

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To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@...>
Cc: Jarek Poplawski <jarkao2@...>, Miklos Szeredi <miklos@...>, <cebbert@...>, <chris@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <tglx@...>, <akpm@...>
Date: Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 12:32 pm

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Ingo Molnar wrote:

That's what I think, yes.

And it matches the behaviour we've seen before (remember the whole thread 
about whether Opteron or Core 2 hardware is "more fair" between cores?)

It all simply boils down to the fact that releasing and almost immediately 
re-taking a lock is "invisible" to outside cores, because it will happen 
entirely within the L1 cache of one core if the cacheline is already in 
"owned" state.

Another core that spins wildly trying to get it ends up using a much 
slower "beat" (the cache coherency clock), and with just a bit of bad luck 
the L1 cache would simply never get probed, and the line never stolen, at 
the point where the lock happens to be released.

The fact that writes (as in the store that releases the lock) 
automatically get delayed by any x86 core by the store buffer, and the 
fact that atomic read-modify-write cycles do *not* get delayed, just means 
that if the "spinlock release" was "fairly close" to the "reacquire" in a 
software sense, the hardware will actually make them *even*closer*.

So you could make the spinlock release be a read-modify-write cycle, and 
it would make the spinlock much slower, but it would also make it much 
more likely that the other core will *see* the release.

For the same reasons, if you add a "smp_mb()" in between the release and 
the re-acquire, the other core is much more likely to see it: it means 
that the release won't be delayed, and thus it just won't be as "close" to 
the re-acquire.

So you can *hide* this problem in many ways, but it's still just hiding 
it.

The proper fix is to not do that kind of "release and re-acquire" 
behaviour in a loop.

			Linus
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Messages in current thread:
[BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu May 24, 8:04 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh..., (Thu May 24, 6:08 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Kok, Auke, (Thu May 24, 6:13 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Fri May 25, 2:58 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 8:54 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu May 24, 10:03 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 10:10 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu May 24, 10:28 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 10:42 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 10:44 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu May 24, 1:09 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 5:01 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Fri May 25, 5:51 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Jun 14, 12:04 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Jun 16, 6:37 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Sun Jun 17, 5:46 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 2:43 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 3:24 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 4:12 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jun 18, 12:34 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Jun 20, 5:36 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 20, 1:34 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 3:30 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 11:50 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 12:08 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Chuck Ebbert, (Thu Jun 21, 12:44 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 1:31 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:18 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:36 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:16 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Fri Jun 22, 4:17 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Sat Jun 23, 6:36 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Mon Jun 25, 2:45 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Sat Jun 23, 12:39 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Eric Dumazet, (Thu Jun 21, 2:29 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 2:44 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 26, 4:42 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Jun 26, 1:23 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Nick Piggin, (Wed Jun 27, 1:23 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 27, 2:04 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 27, 3:47 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Nick Piggin, (Mon Jul 2, 3:06 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Davide Libenzi, (Wed Jun 27, 4:17 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 27, 6:11 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Davide Libenzi, (Wed Jun 27, 7:30 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 27, 8:46 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Davide Libenzi, (Wed Jun 27, 11:03 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Jun 27, 4:10 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Nick Piggin, (Wed Jun 27, 2:20 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Tue Jun 26, 6:56 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:12 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 3:56 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:10 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:23 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 3:35 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Eric Dumazet, (Thu Jun 21, 4:36 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:09 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:14 pm)
[patch] spinlock debug: make looping nicer, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:42 pm)
Re: [patch] spinlock debug: make looping nicer, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:58 pm)
Re: [patch] spinlock debug: make looping nicer, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 5:15 pm)
Re: [patch] spinlock debug: make looping nicer, Jarek Poplawski, (Fri Jun 22, 3:00 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:30 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:48 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 5:06 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 12:32 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Jun 21, 3:38 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 12:01 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Fri Jun 22, 6:38 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:39 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Jun 21, 7:09 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 2:00 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jun 18, 2:25 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 1:41 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jun 18, 1:48 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 2:02 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 4:25 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 4:31 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 4:34 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 5:18 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 5:38 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 5:44 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 6:18 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 8:36 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 9:10 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Andrew Morton, (Mon Jun 18, 4:20 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ravikiran G Thirumalai, (Tue Jun 19, 12:22 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Chuck Ebbert, (Fri Jun 15, 5:25 pm)
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