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Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60

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To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...>
Cc: Jarek Poplawski <jarkao2@...>, Miklos Szeredi <miklos@...>, <cebbert@...>, <chris@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <tglx@...>, <akpm@...>
Date: Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 3:30 am

* Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:


yeah, and if there's no easy solution, change it to a mutex. Fastpath 
performance of spinlocks and mutexes is essentially the same, and if 
there's any measurable contention then the scheduler is pretty good at 
sorting things out. Say if the average contention is longer than 10-20 
microseconds then likely we could already win by scheduling away to some 
other task. (the best is of course to have no contention at all - but 
there are causes where it is real hard, and there are cases where it's 
outright unmaintainable.)

Hw makers are currently producing transistors disproportionatly faster 
than humans are producing parallel code, as a result of which we've got 
more CPU cache than ever, even taking natural application bloat into 
account. (it just makes no sense to spend those transistors on 
parallelism when applications are just not making use of it yet. Plus 
caches are a lot less power intense than functional units of the CPU, 
and the limit these days is power input.)

So scheduling more frequently and more agressively makes more sense than 
ever before and that trend will likely not stop for some time to come. 


what worries me a bit though is that my patch that made spinlocks 
equally agressive to that loop didnt solve the hangs! So there is some 
issue we dont understand yet - why was the wait_inactive_task() 
open-coded spin-trylock loop starving the other core which had ... an 
open-coded spin-trylock loop coded up in assembly? And we've got a 
handful of other open-coded loops in the kernel (networking for example) 
so this issue could come back and haunt us in a situation where we dont 
have a gifted hacker like Miklos being able to spend _weeks_ to track 
down the problem...

	Ingo
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Messages in current thread:
[BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu May 24, 8:04 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh..., (Thu May 24, 6:08 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Kok, Auke, (Thu May 24, 6:13 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Fri May 25, 2:58 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 8:54 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu May 24, 10:03 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 10:10 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu May 24, 10:28 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 10:42 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 10:44 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu May 24, 1:09 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu May 24, 5:01 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Fri May 25, 5:51 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Thu Jun 14, 12:04 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Jun 16, 6:37 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Sun Jun 17, 5:46 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 2:43 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 3:24 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 4:12 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jun 18, 12:34 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Jun 20, 5:36 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 20, 1:34 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 3:30 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 11:50 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 12:08 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Chuck Ebbert, (Thu Jun 21, 12:44 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 1:31 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:18 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:36 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:16 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Fri Jun 22, 4:17 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Sat Jun 23, 6:36 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Mon Jun 25, 2:45 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Sat Jun 23, 12:39 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Eric Dumazet, (Thu Jun 21, 2:29 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 2:44 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Nick Piggin, (Tue Jun 26, 4:42 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Jun 26, 1:23 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Nick Piggin, (Wed Jun 27, 1:23 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 27, 2:04 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 27, 3:47 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Nick Piggin, (Mon Jul 2, 3:06 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Davide Libenzi, (Wed Jun 27, 4:17 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 27, 6:11 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Davide Libenzi, (Wed Jun 27, 7:30 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jun 27, 8:46 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Davide Libenzi, (Wed Jun 27, 11:03 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Jun 27, 4:10 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Nick Piggin, (Wed Jun 27, 2:20 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Tue Jun 26, 6:56 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:12 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 3:56 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:10 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:23 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 3:35 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Eric Dumazet, (Thu Jun 21, 4:36 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:09 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:14 pm)
[patch] spinlock debug: make looping nicer, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:42 pm)
Re: [patch] spinlock debug: make looping nicer, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:58 pm)
Re: [patch] spinlock debug: make looping nicer, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 5:15 pm)
Re: [patch] spinlock debug: make looping nicer, Jarek Poplawski, (Fri Jun 22, 3:00 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:30 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 4:48 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 5:06 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 12:32 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Jun 21, 3:38 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jun 21, 12:01 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Fri Jun 22, 6:38 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Jun 21, 4:39 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Jun 21, 7:09 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 2:00 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jun 18, 2:25 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 1:41 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jun 18, 1:48 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 2:02 pm)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 4:25 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 4:31 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 4:34 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 5:18 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 5:38 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 5:44 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 6:18 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Jun 18, 8:36 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Miklos Szeredi, (Mon Jun 18, 9:10 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Andrew Morton, (Mon Jun 18, 4:20 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Ravikiran G Thirumalai, (Tue Jun 19, 12:22 am)
Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60, Chuck Ebbert, (Fri Jun 15, 5:25 pm)
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