Re: Back to the future.

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To: Rafael J. Wysocki <rjw@...>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...>, Pekka J Enberg <penberg@...>, Nigel Cunningham <nigel@...>, LKML <linux-kernel@...>
Date: Friday, April 27, 2007 - 7:01 pm

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:


if accessing a file on a read-only filesystem changes that filesystem it's a bug

see the recent thread about ext3 journal replays when mounting read-only as an 
example.


however, the result may be a lot less 'special case pwoer management' code and a 
lot more re-use of code that's in place for other uses.

if work on the current versions was stopped (other then trying to avoid 
regressions) and a new version (with new userspace tools) was built in a way 
that satisfies everyone the old version could be phased out in a year or two 
(per the normal feture removal process)


if simply splitting the functions cleans everything up enough to satisfy 
everyone then we're almost done right? ;-)

however I think that there are other fundamental disagreements here, and neither 
the 'do absolutly everything in the kernel' or the 'do almost nothing in the 
kernel' approaches are going to fly in the long run. I think the 
userspace<->kernel interface is going to be different then either apprach is 
doing now, and as such it's an oppurtunity to make more drastic changes if they 
are appropriate.

for example, why should we have LVM snapshot code and hibernate 
snapshot/filesystem checkpoint code instead of just useing the LVM code (which 
gets excercised and tested far more then the other code ever would be)? saying 
that if you want to suspend to disk you need to use LVM is a change, but it's 
a change that people could probably live with.

David Lang
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Messages in current thread:
Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Thu Apr 26, 2:04 am)
Re: Back to the future., Jan Engelhardt, (Thu Apr 26, 4:38 am)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Thu Apr 26, 5:33 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka Enberg, (Thu Apr 26, 3:28 am)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Thu Apr 26, 3:42 am)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Thu Apr 26, 12:56 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Chase Venters, (Thu Apr 26, 2:22 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Thu Apr 26, 2:50 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Thu Apr 26, 1:07 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Fri Apr 27, 8:49 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 5:26 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Fri Apr 27, 6:12 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Thu Apr 26, 6:42 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Thu Apr 26, 6:24 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Thu Apr 26, 7:12 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Thu Apr 26, 6:49 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Olivier Galibert, (Thu Apr 26, 8:23 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Thu Apr 26, 7:27 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Thu Apr 26, 6:56 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Thu Apr 26, 6:40 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka Enberg, (Fri Apr 27, 1:41 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Fri Apr 27, 10:55 am)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Fri Apr 27, 5:39 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Thu Apr 26, 3:56 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka J Enberg, (Fri Apr 27, 12:52 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 4:44 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Fri Apr 27, 2:08 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka J Enberg, (Fri Apr 27, 2:18 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka J Enberg, (Fri Apr 27, 2:29 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 5:24 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Fri Apr 27, 5:44 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Fri Apr 27, 8:18 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Matthew Garrett, (Fri Apr 27, 9:00 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Fri Apr 27, 9:05 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Thu May 3, 11:14 am)
Re: Back to the future., Eric W. Biederman, (Fri Jun 1, 3:00 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 9:08 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 6:04 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Fri Apr 27, 6:08 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 6:41 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Fri Apr 27, 6:26 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 7:21 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Fri Apr 27, 7:01 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 8:02 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Fri Apr 27, 7:17 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Thu May 3, 11:25 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 7:45 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Fri Apr 27, 7:59 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Fri Apr 27, 8:18 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Sat May 5, 7:42 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 9:00 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Fri Apr 27, 9:12 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Fri Apr 27, 8:54 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 9:44 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Sat Apr 28, 4:50 am)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Sat Apr 28, 2:32 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sat Apr 28, 3:14 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Sat Apr 28, 2:44 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Sat Apr 28, 12:28 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sat Apr 28, 1:50 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Sat Apr 28, 5:25 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Sun Apr 29, 4:23 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 29, 5:22 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sat Apr 28, 7:03 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Sat Apr 28, 7:45 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Kyle Moffett, (Sat Apr 28, 11:43 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 29, 4:57 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Sun Apr 29, 4:59 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sun Apr 29, 5:32 am)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Sat Apr 28, 8:01 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sat Apr 28, 5:24 am)
Re: Back to the future., Daniel Hazelton, (Fri Apr 27, 10:51 pm)
progress meter in s2disk (was Re: Back to the future.), Pavel Machek, (Sat Apr 28, 3:00 am)
Re: Back to the future., Paul Mackerras, (Fri Apr 27, 8:50 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Fri Apr 27, 7:57 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Fri Apr 27, 7:50 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Fri Apr 27, 8:40 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Thu May 3, 1:18 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Sun May 6, 10:13 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Kyle Moffett, (Sun May 6, 11:33 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Mon May 7, 8:48 am)
Re: Back to the future., Oliver Neukum, (Mon May 7, 8:52 am)
Re: Back to the future., , (Mon May 7, 10:37 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Mon May 7, 3:51 pm)
Re: Back to the future., , (Mon May 7, 3:55 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Mon May 7, 4:38 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Disconnect, (Tue May 8, 1:36 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Oliver Neukum, (Sat Apr 28, 2:58 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka J Enberg, (Sat Apr 28, 5:16 am)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Sat Apr 28, 2:28 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Fri Apr 27, 6:07 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Kyle Moffett, (Fri Apr 27, 9:03 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Thu May 3, 11:10 am)
Re: Back to the future., Kyle Moffett, (Thu May 3, 12:53 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Greaves, (Fri May 4, 3:52 am)
Re: Back to the future., Kyle Moffett, (Fri May 4, 9:27 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Fri Apr 27, 9:15 pm)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Fri Apr 27, 8:51 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Kyle Moffett, (Fri Apr 27, 9:25 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Oliver Neukum, (Fri Apr 27, 5:50 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka J Enberg, (Fri Apr 27, 6:12 am)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sat Apr 28, 6:35 am)
Re: Back to the future., David Lang, (Sat Apr 28, 2:43 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Sat Apr 28, 3:37 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Oliver Neukum, (Fri Apr 27, 3:07 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka Enberg, (Sat Apr 28, 5:22 am)
Re: Back to the future., Oliver Neukum, (Sat Apr 28, 9:37 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Thu May 3, 8:06 am)
Re: Back to the future., Indan Zupancic, (Fri May 4, 5:52 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pavel Machek, (Sat May 5, 5:16 am)
Re: Back to the future., Indan Zupancic, (Sat May 5, 8:02 am)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Fri Apr 27, 2:34 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka J Enberg, (Fri Apr 27, 2:50 am)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Fri Apr 27, 3:03 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka J Enberg, (Fri Apr 27, 3:24 am)
Re: Back to the future., Bill Davidsen, (Sat Apr 28, 3:09 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Xavier Bestel, (Thu Apr 26, 1:03 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Thu Apr 26, 1:34 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka Enberg, (Fri Apr 27, 3:51 am)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Thu Apr 26, 4:08 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Thu Apr 26, 4:45 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Thu Apr 26, 4:50 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Olivier Galibert, (Thu Apr 26, 8:10 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Daniel Pittman, (Fri Apr 27, 6:21 am)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Fri Apr 27, 7:19 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu Apr 26, 6:08 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Linus Torvalds, (Thu Apr 26, 7:15 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Thu Apr 26, 6:20 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Theodore Tso, (Thu Apr 26, 5:38 pm)
Re: Back to the future., Christoph Hellwig, (Fri Apr 27, 6:10 am)
Re: Back to the future., Pekka Enberg, (Thu Apr 26, 4:17 am)
Re: Back to the future., Nigel Cunningham, (Thu Apr 26, 5:28 am)
Re: Back to the future., Luca Tettamanti, (Thu Apr 26, 1:29 pm)