Re: is RSDL an "unfair" scheduler too?

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From: Ingo Molnar
Date: Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 5:28 am

* Con Kolivas <kernel@kolivas.org> wrote:


that could very well be so - it would be helpful if you could provide 
your own rough definition for the term, so that we can agree on how to 
call things?

[ in any case, there's no rush here, please reply at your own pace, as
  your condition allows. I wish you a speedy recovery! ]


Con, i am not 'cashing in' on anything and i'm not 'exploiting' 
anything. The TASK_NONINTERACTIVE flag is totally irrelevant to my 
argument because i was not testing the vanilla scheduler, i was testing 
RSDL. I could have written this test using plain sockets, because i was 
testing RSDL's claim of not having heuristics, i was not testing the 
vanilla scheduler.

I have simply replied to this claim of yours:


and i showed you a workload under _RSDL_ that clearly shows that RSDL is 
an unfair scheduler too.

my whole point was to counter the myth of 'RSDL has no heuristics'. Of 
course it has heuristics, which results in unfairness. (If it didnt have 
any heuristics that tilt the balance of scheduling towards sleep-intense 
tasks then a default Linux desktop would not be usable at all.)

so the decision is _not_ a puristic "do we want to have heuristics or 
not", the question is a more practical "which heuristics are simpler, 
which heuristics are more flexible, which heuristics result in better 
behavior".

	Ingo
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Messages in current thread:
RSDL development plans, Con Kolivas, (Tue Mar 13, 4:08 pm)
Re: RSDL development plans, Con Kolivas, (Fri Mar 16, 5:25 am)
RSDL v0.31, Con Kolivas, (Fri Mar 16, 6:40 am)
Re: RSDL development plans, Mike Galbraith, (Fri Mar 16, 6:42 am)
Re: RSDL development plans, Con Kolivas, (Fri Mar 16, 6:59 am)
Re: RSDL development plans, Mike Galbraith, (Fri Mar 16, 7:07 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Fri Mar 16, 8:34 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, AshMilsted, (Fri Mar 16, 10:12 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Gabriel C, (Fri Mar 16, 10:41 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Con Kolivas, (Fri Mar 16, 2:13 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Al Boldi, (Fri Mar 16, 2:55 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Fri Mar 16, 3:30 pm)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Dirk Schoebel, (Fri Mar 16, 4:05 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Con Kolivas, (Fri Mar 16, 7:51 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Nicholas Miell, (Fri Mar 16, 9:24 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Al Boldi, (Fri Mar 16, 9:40 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Con Kolivas, (Fri Mar 16, 9:57 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Gene Heskett, (Fri Mar 16, 10:15 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Fri Mar 16, 10:56 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Fri Mar 16, 11:08 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Nicholas Miell, (Fri Mar 16, 11:26 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 12:11 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, William Lee Irwin III, (Sat Mar 17, 12:25 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Nicholas Miell, (Sat Mar 17, 12:29 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, David Lang, (Sat Mar 17, 12:44 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Mar 17, 12:45 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Mar 17, 12:56 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Nicholas Miell, (Sat Mar 17, 1:23 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Serge Belyshev, (Sat Mar 17, 1:41 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 1:46 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Con Kolivas, (Sat Mar 17, 2:48 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 2:58 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 3:49 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, jos poortvliet, (Sat Mar 17, 4:07 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Gene Heskett, (Sat Mar 17, 4:48 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Mar 17, 4:49 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Con Kolivas, (Sat Mar 17, 5:02 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Gene Heskett, (Sat Mar 17, 5:05 am)
Re: [ck] Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, jos poortvliet, (Sat Mar 17, 5:15 am)
Re: [ck] Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, jos poortvliet, (Sat Mar 17, 5:23 am)
Re: is RSDL an "unfair" scheduler too?, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Mar 17, 5:28 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Con Kolivas, (Sat Mar 17, 5:43 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Mar 17, 5:44 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 6:36 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, jos poortvliet, (Sat Mar 17, 6:44 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Ed Tomlinson, (Sat Mar 17, 6:50 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Ed Tomlinson, (Sat Mar 17, 6:56 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, michael chang, (Sat Mar 17, 6:58 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Ed Tomlinson, (Sat Mar 17, 7:04 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Mark Glines, (Sat Mar 17, 7:09 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Rik van Riel, (Sat Mar 17, 7:32 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 7:33 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 7:43 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Mark Glines, (Sat Mar 17, 7:54 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 7:58 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mark Hahn, (Sat Mar 17, 8:13 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Mar 17, 8:39 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Al Boldi, (Sat Mar 17, 9:12 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Ingo Molnar, (Sat Mar 17, 9:34 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Gene Heskett, (Sat Mar 17, 10:03 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Stephen Clark, (Sat Mar 17, 10:22 am)
RE: [ck] Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, David Schwartz, (Sat Mar 17, 10:31 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 10:37 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Kacper Wysocki, (Sat Mar 17, 11:23 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 11:45 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Avi Kivity, (Sat Mar 17, 1:41 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Al Boldi, (Sat Mar 17, 1:55 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, William Lee Irwin III, (Sat Mar 17, 6:25 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Linus Torvalds, (Sat Mar 17, 6:32 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Bill Davidsen, (Sat Mar 17, 7:13 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Kasper Sandberg, (Sat Mar 17, 8:20 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Bill Davidsen, (Sat Mar 17, 8:23 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Avi Kivity, (Sat Mar 17, 10:00 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Willy Tarreau, (Sat Mar 17, 10:24 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 10:37 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Avi Kivity, (Sat Mar 17, 10:55 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Bill Huey, (Sat Mar 17, 11:09 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 11:17 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 11:26 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Mike Galbraith, (Sat Mar 17, 11:37 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Kasper Sandberg, (Sat Mar 17, 11:47 pm)
Re: [ck] Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Radoslaw Szkodzinski, (Sat Mar 17, 11:54 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sun Mar 18, 12:08 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Radoslaw Szkodzinski, (Sun Mar 18, 12:22 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Bill Huey, (Sun Mar 18, 12:35 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sun Mar 18, 12:38 am)
Re: [ck] Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Willy Tarreau, (Sun Mar 18, 12:58 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sun Mar 18, 1:04 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, jimmy bahuleyan, (Sun Mar 18, 1:20 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sun Mar 18, 1:34 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Kasper Sandberg, (Sun Mar 18, 2:57 am)
Re: [ck] Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, jos poortvliet, (Sun Mar 18, 3:58 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Avuton Olrich, (Sun Mar 18, 6:57 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Radoslaw Szkodzinski, (Sun Mar 18, 8:44 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, jos poortvliet, (Sun Mar 18, 9:09 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Lee Revell, (Sun Mar 18, 12:37 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sun Mar 18, 12:55 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Szonyi Calin, (Sun Mar 18, 3:45 pm)
RE: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, David Schwartz, (Sun Mar 18, 7:27 pm)
RE: RSDL v0.31, David Schwartz, (Sun Mar 18, 7:27 pm)
RE: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Sun Mar 18, 11:21 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Willy Tarreau, (Sun Mar 18, 11:59 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Radoslaw Szkodzinski, (Mon Mar 19, 6:27 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Chris Friesen, (Mon Mar 19, 8:06 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Avi Kivity, (Mon Mar 19, 8:25 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mark Lord, (Mon Mar 19, 9:03 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Helge Hafting, (Mon Mar 19, 9:06 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mark Lord, (Mon Mar 19, 9:07 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Xavier Bestel, (Mon Mar 19, 9:26 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mark Lord, (Mon Mar 19, 9:36 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Avi Kivity, (Mon Mar 19, 9:37 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Xavier Bestel, (Mon Mar 19, 9:43 am)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, David Lang, (Mon Mar 19, 11:30 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Bill Davidsen, (Mon Mar 19, 1:47 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Al Boldi, (Mon Mar 19, 1:53 pm)
Re: is RSDL an &quot;unfair&quot; scheduler too?, Bill Davidsen, (Mon Mar 19, 2:14 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Mar 19, 8:11 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Willy Tarreau, (Mon Mar 19, 11:11 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Tue Mar 20, 1:03 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Xavier Bestel, (Tue Mar 20, 2:03 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, jos poortvliet, (Tue Mar 20, 3:19 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, jos poortvliet, (Tue Mar 20, 3:26 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Artur Skawina, (Tue Mar 20, 5:31 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mark Lord, (Tue Mar 20, 6:22 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Ray Lee, (Tue Mar 20, 8:16 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mark Lord, (Tue Mar 20, 8:20 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Linus Torvalds, (Tue Mar 20, 8:31 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Al Boldi, (Tue Mar 20, 11:08 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Artur Skawina, (Tue Mar 20, 12:16 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Artur Skawina, (Tue Mar 20, 12:50 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Al Boldi, (Tue Mar 20, 9:15 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Mar 21, 12:50 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Keith Duthie, (Wed Mar 21, 1:22 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Kasper Sandberg, (Wed Mar 21, 1:55 am)
Re: [ck] Re: RSDL v0.31, Kasper Sandberg, (Wed Mar 21, 1:58 am)
RE: RSDL v0.31, David Schwartz, (Wed Mar 21, 3:43 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Mar 21, 7:57 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Peter Zijlstra, (Wed Mar 21, 9:02 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Mar 21, 10:06 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Artur Skawina, (Wed Mar 21, 10:24 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Thu Mar 22, 12:07 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Mar 22, 2:18 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Thu Mar 22, 2:34 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Thu Mar 22, 2:41 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Con Kolivas, (Thu Mar 22, 3:03 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Con Kolivas, (Thu Mar 22, 3:50 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Thu Mar 22, 9:39 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Con Kolivas, (Thu Mar 22, 10:59 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Thu Mar 22, 11:11 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Mike Galbraith, (Fri Mar 23, 5:17 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Bill Davidsen, (Wed Mar 28, 4:37 pm)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Bill Davidsen, (Wed Mar 28, 4:43 pm)
RE: RSDL v0.31, David Schwartz, (Thu Mar 29, 12:10 am)
Re: RSDL v0.31, Nick Piggin, (Thu Mar 29, 12:34 am)