Re: yield API

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From: Ingo Molnar
Subject: Re: yield API
Date: Monday, October 1, 2007 - 11:46 pm

* David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com> wrote:


sched_yield() has been around for a decade (about three times longer 
than futexes were around), so if it's useful, it sure should have grown 
some 'crown jewel' app that uses it and shows off its advantages, 
compared to other locking approaches, right?

For example, if you asked me whether pipes are the best thing for 
certain apps, i could immediately show you tons of examples where they 
are. Same for sockets. Or RT priorities. Or nice levels. Or futexes. Or 
just about any other core kernel concept or API. Your notion that 
showing a good example of an API would be "difficult" because it's hard 
to determine "smart" use is not tenable i believe and does not 
adequately refute my pretty plain-meaning "it does not exist" assertion.

If then this is one more supporting proof for the fundamental weakness 
of the sched_yield() API. Rarely are we able to so universally condemn 
an API: real-life is usually more varied and even for theoretically 
poorly defined APIs _some_ sort of legitimate use does grow up.

APIs that are not in any real, meaningful use, despite a decade of 
presence are not really interesting to me personally. (especially in 
this case where we know exactly _why_ the API is used so rarely.) Sure 
we'll continue to support it in the best possible way, with the usual 
kernel maintainance policy: without hurting other, more commonly used 
APIs. That was the principle we followed in previous schedulers too. And 
if anyone has a patch to make sched_yield() better than it is today, i'm 
of course interested in it.

	Ingo
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Messages in current thread:
Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Wed Sep 26, 1:52 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 2:34 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 2:47 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Wed Sep 26, 3:08 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 3:18 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Sep 26, 3:20 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Sep 26, 3:23 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Wed Sep 26, 3:48 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 4:21 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Wed Sep 26, 4:29 am)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Wed Sep 26, 5:00 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 6:31 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Stephen Hemminger, (Wed Sep 26, 8:40 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Stephen Hemminger, (Wed Sep 26, 8:46 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Sep 27, 2:30 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Sep 27, 2:46 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Sep 27, 2:49 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Thu Sep 27, 3:54 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Sep 27, 3:56 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Thu Sep 27, 4:12 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Sep 27, 5:27 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Sep 27, 6:31 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Sep 27, 7:42 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Nick Piggin, (Thu Sep 27, 11:10 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Mon Oct 1, 1:43 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 9:25 am)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Mon Oct 1, 9:49 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Chris Friesen, (Mon Oct 1, 9:55 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 10:09 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 10:31 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Chris Friesen, (Mon Oct 1, 10:45 am)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Mon Oct 1, 11:23 am)
Re: iperf yield usage, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 12:09 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Oct 1, 12:53 pm)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Mon Oct 1, 3:17 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Oct 1, 3:35 pm)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Mon Oct 1, 3:44 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Oct 1, 3:55 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 11:06 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 11:08 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 11:26 pm)
Re: yield API, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 11:46 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Andi Kleen, (Mon Oct 1, 11:47 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Tue Oct 2, 2:03 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Tue Oct 2, 2:26 am)
Re: yield API, linux-os (Dick Johnson), (Tue Oct 2, 4:50 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Tue Oct 2, 6:39 am)
Re: yield API, Douglas McNaught, (Tue Oct 2, 8:24 am)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Tue Oct 2, 8:37 am)
Re: yield API, Eric St-Laurent, (Tue Oct 2, 2:57 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 12:15 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 1:02 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Oct 3, 1:16 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 1:56 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Oct 3, 2:10 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 2:50 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Dmitry Adamushko, (Wed Oct 3, 3:55 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Dmitry Adamushko, (Wed Oct 3, 3:58 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 4:20 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Oct 3, 4:22 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Helge Hafting, (Wed Oct 3, 4:31 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 4:40 am)
Re: yield, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Oct 3, 4:56 am)
Re: yield, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 5:16 am)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, Rusty Russell, (Wed Oct 3, 5:31 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Casey Dahlin, (Wed Oct 3, 10:33 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Sun Oct 7, 12:18 am)
Re: yield API, Kyle Moffett, (Wed Dec 12, 9:43 pm)
RE: yield API, David Schwartz, (Thu Dec 13, 1:10 pm)