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Re: Network slowdown due to CFS

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To: David Schwartz <davids@...>
Cc: <linux-kernel@...>
Date: Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - 2:26 am

* David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com> wrote:


i'm not really assuming anything, i gave a vague first impression of the 
vague example you gave (assuming that the yield was done to combat 
fairness problems). This is a case where the human language shows its 
boundaries: statements that are hard to refute with certainty because 
they are too vague. So i'd really suggest you show me some sample/real 
code - that would move this discussion to a much more productive level.

but i'll attempt to weave the chain of argument one step forward (in the 
hope of not distorting your point in any way): _if_ the sched_yield() 
call in that memory allocator is done because it uses a locking 
primitive that is unfair (hence the memory pool lock can be starved), 
then the "guaranteed large latency" is caused by "guaranteed 
unfairness". The solution is not to insert a random latency (via a 
sched_yield() call) that also has a side-effect of fairness to other 
tasks, because this random latency introduces guaranteed unfairness for 
this particular task. The correct solution IMO is to make the locking 
primitive more fair _without_ random delays, and there are a number of 
good techniques for that. (they mostly center around the use of futexes)

one thing that is often missed is that most of the cost of a yield() is 
in the system call and the context-switch - quite similar to the futex 
slowpath. So there's _no_ reason to not use a futexes on Linux. (yes, 
there might be historic/compatibility or ease-of-porting arguments but 
those do not really impact the fundamental argument of whether something 
is technically right or not.)

	Ingo
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Messages in current thread:
Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Wed Sep 26, 4:52 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Sep 26, 6:23 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Wed Sep 26, 6:48 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 7:21 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Wed Sep 26, 7:29 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Sep 27, 5:49 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Thu Sep 27, 6:54 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Sep 27, 6:56 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Thu Sep 27, 7:12 am)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Wed Sep 26, 8:00 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 9:31 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Sep 27, 5:30 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Sep 27, 5:46 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Sep 27, 8:27 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Sep 27, 9:31 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Thu Sep 27, 10:42 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Nick Piggin, (Fri Sep 28, 2:10 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Mon Oct 1, 4:43 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Tue Oct 2, 5:26 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 12:25 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Tue Oct 2, 5:03 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Tue Oct 2, 9:39 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Chris Friesen, (Mon Oct 1, 12:55 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 1:09 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Chris Friesen, (Mon Oct 1, 1:45 pm)
Re: iperf yield usage, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 3:09 pm)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Mon Oct 1, 12:49 pm)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, Rusty Russell, (Wed Oct 3, 8:31 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Helge Hafting, (Wed Oct 3, 7:31 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Oct 1, 3:53 pm)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Mon Oct 1, 6:17 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Oct 1, 6:35 pm)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Mon Oct 1, 6:44 pm)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Oct 1, 6:55 pm)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Tue Oct 2, 11:37 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 3:15 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Mon Oct 1, 1:31 pm)
RE: Network slowdown due to CFS, David Schwartz, (Mon Oct 1, 2:23 pm)
Re: yield API, Ingo Molnar, (Tue Oct 2, 2:46 am)
Re: yield API, Jesper Juhl, (Wed Dec 12, 6:39 pm)
Re: yield API, Kyle Moffett, (Thu Dec 13, 12:43 am)
RE: yield API, David Schwartz, (Thu Dec 13, 4:10 pm)
Re: yield API, Eric St-Laurent, (Tue Oct 2, 5:57 pm)
Re: yield API, linux-os (Dick Johnson), (Tue Oct 2, 7:50 am)
Re: yield API, Douglas McNaught, (Tue Oct 2, 11:24 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Tue Oct 2, 2:26 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Tue Oct 2, 2:08 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Tue Oct 2, 2:06 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 4:02 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Oct 3, 4:16 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 4:56 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Oct 3, 5:10 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Casey Dahlin, (Thu Oct 4, 1:33 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 5:50 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Sun Oct 7, 3:18 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Dmitry Adamushko, (Wed Oct 3, 6:55 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 7:40 am)
Re: yield, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Oct 3, 7:56 am)
Re: yield, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 8:16 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Oct 3, 7:22 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Dmitry Adamushko, (Wed Oct 3, 6:58 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Jarek Poplawski, (Wed Oct 3, 7:20 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Andi Kleen, (Tue Oct 2, 2:47 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Stephen Hemminger, (Wed Sep 26, 11:46 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Stephen Hemminger, (Wed Sep 26, 11:40 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Sep 26, 6:20 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 5:34 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 5:47 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Martin Michlmayr, (Wed Sep 26, 6:08 am)
Re: Network slowdown due to CFS, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Sep 26, 6:18 am)
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