Re: OOM killer gripe (was Re: What still uses the block layer?)

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To: Eric W. Biederman <ebiederm@...>
Cc: Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@...>, Theodore Tso <tytso@...>, James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@...>, Matthew Wilcox <matthew@...>, <linux-kernel@...>, <linux-scsi@...>, Suparna Bhattacharya <suparna@...>, Nick Piggin <piggin@...>
Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 2:38 am

On Monday 15 October 2007 11:38:33 pm Eric W. Biederman wrote:

Mind if I throw in some vague and questionable numbers? :)

I vaguely recall that my old 486 laptop with 16 megabyes of ram (circa 1998) 
used to be able to do 3 point something megabytes per second to/from disk, 
according to hdparm -t.  (That was with DMA enabled.)

This means that my old laptop, using sequential writes and not being bogged 
down by excessive seeking, could write its entire memory contents to disk and 
read it back in again in about 10 seconds total (5 write, 5 read).

My current laptop has 2 gigabytes of ram, and hdparm -t /dev/sda says:
  /dev/sda:
   Timing buffered disk reads:  116 MB in  3.01 seconds =  38.54 MB/sec

So that's a little over a factor of 10 speed improvement.  (Although I note 
that I got 30 megabytes/second off of an ATA/100 adapter in 2002, so it's 
barely any faster than it was 5 years ago.)

This means I can expect my current laptop to write out its memory in 50 
seconds (2000/40), and another 50 seconds to read it back in.

So 10 seconds to cycle through memory 10 years ago, vs a little under 2 
minutes today, on systems at roughly the same price point.  And that's 
limited by what the hardware is doing, assuming a _perfect_ linear read/write 
pattern with no seeks.

Oh, and my old 486 had its RAM maxed out.  This one can hold twice as much.  
And heavy seeking sucks more than it used to relative to sequential reads by 
something like a proportional amount (hence the rise of I/O elevators as a 
mitigation strategy), although I haven't got numbers for that handy.


The problem is the gap is getting bigger.  The 486-75 laptop mentioned above 
had a 25 mhz 32 bit front side bus.  A quick google suggests my core 2 duo 
has a 667 mhz FSB and I'm guessing a 128 bit data path (two 64-bit channels).

I could boot up memtest86 and get actual benchmarks, but total handwaving for 
a moment, 25*32=800 and 667*128=85376, and the second divided by the first is 
over 100 times as big.  That concurs with the 16mhz->1733 mhz processor speed 
increase.

Factor of 10 disk speed increase, factor of 100 memory speed increase.  Disks 
speeds aren't keeping up with processor and memory increases.  Disk _sizes_ 
are, but speeds aren't.


Do the numbers above help?  It'll only get worse, unless some random new 
technology (maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAM or something) swoops in 
to change everything, again.


Hence "the seek sucking even more now" part. :(

I'm sure somebody will eventually write an OLS paper or something on the 
advisability of making swapping decisions with 4k granularity when disks 
really want bigger I/O transactions.  Maybe they already have, somewhere 
between:
http://kernel.org/doc/ols/2007/ols2007v1-pages-53-64.pdf
and
http://kernel.org/doc/ols/2007/ols2007v1-pages-277-284.pdf

Rob
-- 
"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code."
  - Ken Thompson.
-
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Messages in current thread:
What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Thu Oct 11, 9:11 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Matthew Wilcox, (Sat Oct 13, 6:05 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, James Bottomley, (Sun Oct 14, 6:24 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Luben Tuikov, (Sun Oct 14, 8:45 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Mon Oct 15, 2:51 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Luben Tuikov, (Mon Oct 15, 4:37 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Sun Oct 14, 7:45 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, James Bottomley, (Mon Oct 15, 9:10 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Mon Oct 15, 5:51 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Greg KH, (Mon Oct 15, 2:00 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Mon Oct 15, 4:36 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Greg KH, (Mon Oct 15, 1:25 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Mon Oct 15, 6:54 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Jeff Garzik, (Mon Oct 15, 2:46 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Bill Davidsen, (Wed Oct 17, 7:43 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Stefan Richter, (Tue Oct 16, 2:33 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Matthew Wilcox, (Mon Oct 15, 2:00 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Arjan van de Ven, (Mon Oct 15, 10:00 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Matthew Garrett, (Mon Oct 15, 2:56 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Alan Cox, (Mon Oct 15, 9:08 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Christoph Hellwig, (Mon Oct 15, 4:52 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Theodore Tso, (Sun Oct 14, 9:45 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Mon Oct 15, 4:04 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Wed Oct 17, 1:34 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Wed Oct 17, 2:07 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Theodore Tso, (Mon Oct 15, 9:21 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Mon Oct 15, 10:51 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Douglas Gilbert, (Mon Oct 15, 10:46 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Alan Cox, (Mon Oct 15, 9:29 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Jeff Garzik, (Mon Oct 15, 1:44 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Theodore Tso, (Mon Oct 15, 9:35 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Loïc Grenié, (Mon Oct 15, 6:32 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Mon Oct 15, 5:09 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Julian Calaby, (Mon Oct 15, 5:06 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Mon Oct 15, 6:08 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Greg KH, (Mon Oct 15, 1:33 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Mon Oct 15, 10:54 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Matthew Wilcox, (Tue Oct 16, 12:04 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Greg KH, (Tue Oct 16, 12:21 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Tue Oct 16, 1:00 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Arjan van de Ven, (Tue Oct 16, 12:11 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Tue Oct 16, 12:15 am)
Re: OOM killer gripe (was Re: What still uses the block laye..., Eric W. Biederman, (Mon Oct 15, 11:55 pm)
Re: OOM killer gripe (was Re: What still uses the block laye..., Eric W. Biederman, (Tue Oct 16, 12:38 am)
Re: OOM killer gripe (was Re: What still uses the block laye..., Rob Landley, (Tue Oct 16, 2:38 am)
Re: OOM killer gripe (was Re: What still uses the block laye..., Eric W. Biederman, (Tue Oct 16, 5:31 am)
Re: OOM killer gripe (was Re: What still uses the block laye..., Eric W. Biederman, (Tue Oct 16, 12:45 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, David Newall, (Sun Oct 14, 1:54 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Stefan Richter, (Sun Oct 14, 1:46 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Sun Oct 14, 7:36 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Stefan Richter, (Mon Oct 15, 1:44 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Rob Landley, (Mon Oct 15, 5:26 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Wilfried Klaebe, (Mon Oct 15, 4:29 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Matthew Wilcox, (Mon Oct 15, 12:08 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Stefan Richter, (Mon Oct 15, 1:10 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Mon Oct 15, 11:06 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Alan Cox, (Tue Oct 16, 6:19 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Tue Oct 16, 3:54 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Matthew Wilcox, (Tue Oct 16, 3:54 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Tue Oct 16, 4:55 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Gabor Gombas, (Wed Oct 17, 5:48 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, , (Wed Oct 17, 5:04 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Stefan Richter, (Wed Oct 17, 1:23 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Alan Cox, (Tue Oct 16, 5:49 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Theodore Tso, (Tue Oct 16, 4:34 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Stefan Richter, (Tue Oct 16, 4:56 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Stefan Richter, (Tue Oct 16, 4:18 pm)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Stefan Richter, (Tue Oct 16, 1:56 am)
Re: What still uses the block layer?, Tilman Schmidt, (Sun Oct 14, 6:35 pm)