On Fri 2009-09-04 07:49:34, Ric Wheeler wrote:
quoted text
> On 09/04/2009 03:44 AM, Rob Landley wrote:
>> On Thursday 03 September 2009 09:14:43 jim owens wrote:
>>    
>>> Rob Landley wrote:
>>>      
>>>> I think he understands he was clueless too, that's why he investigated
>>>> the failure and wrote it up for posterity.
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>> And Ric said do not stigmatize whole classes of A) devices, B) raid,
>>>>> and C) filesystems with "Pavel says...".
>>>>>          
>>>> I don't care what "Pavel says", so you can leave the ad hominem at the
>>>> door, thanks.
>>>>        
>>> See, this is exactly the problem we have with all the proposed
>>> documentation.  The reader (you) did not get what the writer (me)
>>> was trying to say.  That does not say either of us was wrong in
>>> what we thought was meant, simply that we did not communicate.
>>>      
>> That's why I've mostly stopped bothering with this thread.  I could respond to
>> Ric Wheeler's latest (what does write barriers have to do with whether or not
>> a multi-sector stripe is guaranteed to be atomically updated during a panic or
>> power failure?) but there's just no point.
>>    
>
> The point of that post was that the failure that you and Pavel both  
> attribute to RAID and journalled fs happens whenever the storage cannot  
> promise to do atomic writes of a logical FS block (prevent torn  
> pages/split writes/etc). I gave a specific example of why this happens  
> even with simple, single disk systems.

ext3 does not expect atomic write of 4K block, according to Ted. So
no, it is not broken on single disk.
 
quoted text
>> The LWN article on the topic is out, and incomplete as it is I expect it's the
>> best documentation anybody will actually _read_.

Would anyone (probably privately?) share the lwn link?
								Pavel
-- 
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(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
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