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Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names

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From: Theodore Tso <tytso@...>
To: Kevin Ballard <kevin@...>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...>, Peter Karlsson <peter@...>, Mark Junker <mjscod@...>, Pedro Melo <melo@...>, git@vger.kernel.org <git@...>
Subject: Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names
Date: Monday, January 21, 2008 - 4:46 pm

On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 03:31:02PM -0500, Kevin Ballard wrote:

Sure you can.  Suppose you unpack the same tar file or zip file that
contains one of these new-fangled characters, one on a MacOS 10.5
system, and one on a MacOS 10.9 system.  How HFS+ will corrupt that
filename will differ depending which version of MacOS you are running.
Hence, normalizing the filename when you store it is stupid and
broken.  MacOS and its applications and libraries want to do
normalization in the privacy of its own address space, that's it's
business.  It can pursue any fetish it wants, among consenting adults.
Safe, sane and consensual, and all that... well, consensual, anyway.
I'm not sure about "safe" and "sane"....

My arguement is basically is that there is absolutely no value in what
HFS+ is doing, by corrupting filenames --- if you want to call it
"normalizing" them, fine, but since Unicode is not static, so you
can't even call it a "canonical" form.  It's just some random
corruption of what was passed in at open(2) time, that can and will
change depending on what version of MacOS you are running.

If you want to play the insane Unicode game of "equivalent"
characters, you have to do it at comparison time, so there's no point
trying to "normalize" them when you store them.  It doesn't buy you
anything, and it causes all sorts of pain.


OK, what's your reason for why HFS+ corrupts filenames?  What do you
think is its excuse?  What problem does it solve?  If the answer is
"no reason at all, but because it *can*", according to the Great God
Unicode, then that's really not very impressive....

						- Ted
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Messages in current thread:
git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Mark Junker, (Wed Jan 16, 11:17 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Wed Jan 16, 11:34 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Wed Jan 16, 11:43 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Miles Bader, (Thu Jan 17, 3:29 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Wed Jan 16, 7:03 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Wed Jan 16, 12:32 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Jakub Narebski, (Wed Jan 16, 12:46 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Wed Jan 16, 4:39 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Wed Jan 16, 7:52 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Jakub Narebski, (Wed Jan 16, 5:51 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Wed Jan 16, 6:06 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Wed Jan 16, 6:23 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Wed Jan 16, 7:16 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jan 16, 6:32 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jan 16, 6:52 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Wed Jan 16, 7:11 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jan 16, 7:38 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Wed Jan 16, 7:57 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jan 16, 8:16 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Peter Karlsson, (Fri Jan 18, 4:29 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Jakub Narebski, (Fri Jan 18, 7:16 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Wed Jan 16, 8:27 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Wed Jan 16, 8:35 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Wed Jan 16, 8:45 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, David Kastrup, (Wed Jan 16, 8:32 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Wed Jan 16, 8:40 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Wed Jan 16, 8:54 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Wed Jan 16, 9:08 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jan 16, 9:41 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Thu Jan 17, 12:07 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Wed Jan 16, 8:09 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jan 16, 9:16 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Wed Jan 16, 11:52 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 17, 12:08 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Thu Jan 17, 6:08 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 17, 12:43 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, JM Ibanez, (Thu Jan 17, 6:01 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Jan 17, 6:09 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Robin Rosenberg, (Thu Jan 17, 9:27 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 17, 7:05 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Thu Jan 17, 7:10 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Mark Junker, (Thu Jan 17, 2:09 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 17, 2:42 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Thu Jan 17, 2:52 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 17, 3:11 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Peter Karlsson, (Fri Jan 18, 6:19 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Fri Jan 18, 1:11 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Peter Karlsson, (Mon Jan 21, 10:14 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 2:16 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 12:43 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Mon Jan 21, 4:30 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 2:12 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Mon Jan 21, 4:36 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Martin Langhoff, (Mon Jan 21, 5:06 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, David Kastrup, (Mon Jan 21, 5:09 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 5:42 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Martin Langhoff, (Mon Jan 21, 6:45 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Mike Hommey, (Mon Jan 21, 3:44 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 3:05 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Mon Jan 21, 4:56 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 5:07 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Mon Jan 21, 6:41 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 6:53 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Mon Jan 21, 7:21 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Theodore Tso, (Mon Jan 21, 3:57 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 4:01 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Theodore Tso, (Mon Jan 21, 4:15 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 4:31 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Theodore Tso, (Mon Jan 21, 4:46 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 4:59 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 3:41 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 3:58 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 4:33 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 4:53 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, David Kastrup, (Mon Jan 21, 4:58 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 5:33 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 5:49 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 6:34 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 6:46 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 7:44 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 8:47 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 9:01 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 9:13 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 10:33 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 10:50 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 11:04 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Martin Langhoff, (Mon Jan 21, 11:21 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Tue Jan 22, 12:22 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Mon Jan 21, 11:17 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Theodore Tso, (Mon Jan 21, 7:00 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 7:09 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Martin Langhoff, (Mon Jan 21, 6:56 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Martin Langhoff, (Mon Jan 21, 5:17 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 5:28 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Martin Langhoff, (Mon Jan 21, 5:43 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Nicolas Pitre, (Mon Jan 21, 1:08 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, David Kastrup, (Mon Jan 21, 4:32 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Mon Jan 21, 1:25 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, David Kastrup, (Mon Jan 21, 4:35 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Jeff King, (Mon Jan 21, 12:53 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Junio C Hamano, (Fri Jan 18, 4:28 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Eric W. Biederman, (Tue Jan 22, 10:46 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Junio C Hamano, (Tue Jan 22, 10:57 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Nicolas Pitre, (Wed Jan 23, 10:26 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Jan 23, 5:19 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Fri Jan 18, 4:50 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Fri Jan 18, 4:24 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Sat Jan 19, 4:48 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Sat Jan 19, 2:58 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Sat Jan 19, 8:11 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Sat Jan 19, 9:04 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Sun Jan 20, 5:34 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Mike Hommey, (Sun Jan 20, 1:27 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Sun Jan 20, 1:45 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Mike Hommey, (Sun Jan 20, 3:00 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Sun Jan 20, 4:00 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Sun Jan 20, 4:12 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Sun Jan 20, 3:26 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Sat Jan 19, 6:58 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Sun Jan 20, 2:14 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Sun Jan 20, 9:15 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Sun Jan 20, 2:53 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Mark Junker, (Sat Jan 19, 4:39 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Sat Jan 19, 10:55 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Sat Jan 19, 5:17 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Fri Jan 18, 6:50 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Peter Karlsson, (Fri Jan 18, 11:30 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Thu Jan 17, 8:18 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 17, 8:35 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Robin Rosenberg, (Thu Jan 17, 9:05 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 17, 9:24 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Robin Rosenberg, (Fri Jan 18, 5:42 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Fri Jan 18, 6:30 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Peter Karlsson, (Fri Jan 18, 11:37 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Fri Jan 18, 4:49 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Theodore Tso, (Thu Jan 17, 3:01 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Mark Junker, (Thu Jan 17, 2:50 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Thu Jan 17, 2:12 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Jan 17, 2:18 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Mark Junker, (Thu Jan 17, 2:36 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Thu Jan 17, 2:38 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 17, 2:44 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Thu Jan 17, 3:02 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Dmitry Potapov, (Thu Jan 17, 5:27 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Thu Jan 17, 12:30 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Martin Langhoff, (Thu Jan 17, 12:51 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Thu Jan 17, 1:23 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Geert Bosch, (Thu Jan 17, 2:13 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Mitch Tishmack, (Thu Jan 17, 3:11 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Thu Jan 17, 6:22 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Thu Jan 17, 9:44 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Jan 17, 11:57 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Thu Jan 17, 12:53 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Robin Rosenberg, (Thu Jan 17, 8:44 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Andrew Heybey, (Thu Jan 17, 10:02 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Thu Jan 17, 11:04 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kyle Moffett, (Sat Jan 19, 3:29 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Kevin Ballard, (Sat Jan 19, 3:57 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jan 16, 8:25 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Wed Jan 16, 8:33 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jan 16, 9:06 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Wed Jan 16, 8:43 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Wed Jan 16, 8:57 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, David Kastrup, (Wed Jan 16, 7:58 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Jan 16, 8:19 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Eyvind Bernhardsen, (Wed Jan 16, 6:37 pm)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Jay Soffian, (Thu Jan 17, 12:43 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Jan 17, 1:11 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Jay Soffian, (Thu Jan 17, 12:59 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Junio C Hamano, (Thu Jan 17, 1:15 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Thu Jan 17, 6:28 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Jan 17, 7:10 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Pedro Melo, (Thu Jan 17, 7:23 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Jan 17, 9:05 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Thu Jan 17, 7:51 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Jan 17, 8:53 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Thu Jan 17, 9:40 am)
Re: git on MacOSX and files with decomposed utf-8 file names, Wincent Colaiuta, (Thu Jan 17, 7:46 am)